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Ariander

Level with a most epic feeling?

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You know what I mean - Opening the first door to see a quiet setup of weapons and ammo that you will really need, or perhaps lots of monsters all with their back face to you.

One fine example I would say is Alien Vendetta Map 27. You just know when it's like a icon of sin arrangement of weapons.

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I don't agree with your definition of 'epic'.
Monster battles are not epic - some grand scale level design is.

And in that category I nominate

Eternal MAP12 - Darkdome

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I pretty much agree with what Graf Zahl said, as well as with the level he chose. Some more grandiose examples:
- Alien Vendetta levels 11 and 20
- The Mucus Flow from CC2
- The last level of Darkening 2
- Espi's levels, especially MAP03 from Suspended in the Dusk
- Mordeth levels
- MAP 17 from Plutonia 2
- Vrack series
- A few STRAIN maps: 11,23,27
- MAP 08 from Requiem

But when I see all the weapons at the very beginning, I'll most likely think to myself: "lack of ideas, poor design!" :)

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The first thing that comes to mind is Deus Vult (levels 1-4). To be epic, I think it's best if both the challenge and the architecture contribute, not just one or the other. This is achieved with the combination of well placed hordes and spacious architecture with a suitable texturing and lighting.

Even bigger levels might end up being more epic, theoretically speaking, but I don't like that they can degrade performance and that they make play too protracted, eliminating the possibility of the "stages" levels naturally provide, so they tend to fail.

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Monster placement can be epic, though it's rare and difficult to pull off. The room in Tricks & Traps (MAP08) with the Cyberdemon and the Barons is a good example of this, it really makes you go "oh shit" the first time you see it. Not so much for repeat plays, as the surprise is ruined.

Construction is more often epic. Remain1 is a good example of this, especially its' Refuelling Base (MAP10), I can just walk around in awe at this map.

Lutz' TDE (MAP29) is also incredible to see the first time you enter the main cavern.

The old Aliens TC certainly sets a good overall atmosphere.

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This thread is 7 posts old, and no one has yet mentioned Vader's Thunderpeak.

Also Agent Spork's "Ultimate simplicity".

Super Jamie said:

Lutz' TDE (MAP29) is also incredible to see the first time you enter the main cavern.


Just had a play of this map and I gotta agree, it is pretty awesome. Pretty tough too, from a pistol start. Thanks for the link.

[edit] Just occurred to me. Level 11 of Alien Vendetta. Possibly my favorite add on-level ever. Possibly.

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Graf Zahl said:

And in that category I nominate
Eternal MAP12 - Darkdome


Absolutely. Also, though maybe not as visually stunning, MAP30 is certainly 'epic' (if only in the sense that it takes at least 45 minutes to get though it...)

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Thunderpeak definitely has some of the most incredbile architecture I've seen in a Doom wad. Also Doomdream is pretty epic in scale.

Oh, and Map02 of Hellcore is epic as in holy hell massively detailed and incredible looking.

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I would actually go with map 29 of CC3, "For We Are Many". Very challenging and well done IMO. Up there is also Deus Vult, but I'd have to think of any others.

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earthquake's rjspace and timeofdeath's rjsloth. both city-like rocket jump mazes for zdaemon. they are fucking intimidating even after years of rj practice.

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I'm definitely going to have to go with Deus Vult. Nothing screams epic like MAP05. It was probably the first serious and anticipated project that really pushed the limits of Doom (heh, I mean ZDoom).

dew said:

earthquake's rjspace and timeofdeath's rjsloth. both city-like rocket jump mazes for zdaemon. they are fucking intimidating even after years of rj practice.


And lol.

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vdgg said:
- A few STRAIN maps: 11,23,27


As it happens, maps 11 and 12 of STRAIN were originally intended to be a single level, but the need to work within vanilla Doom's engine limits forced it to be split into two. So you actually got a less epic level than intended :)

Bill McClendon's other levels (diamonds.wad, 3x-play.wad, and 'The Canyon' from Requiem) are all fine work. Well worth a look.

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Some more of my favorites which haven't been mentioned yet:

MAP07 of Nimrod (The Alpha Outpost):

One huge highly non-linear techbase level with a given objective but you are free to approach it however you like.

Enjay's Operation Overlord:

The beach assault is one of the most unique ways Doom has ever been put to use. Truly epic if you ask me...

Scythe II Map27:

Grand scale but not overdone (like MAP30 in the recent re-release for example.) The map is hard as hell but never degrades into a typical slaughterfest.

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av20 Misri Halek (epic egyptian map)
av23 Blood Sacrifice (epic medieval castle/nukage)

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AV Map20 as above

I also found Eternal Map22 to be even more epic than Map12, if only for that sick final battle. I also kindof dislike hitscan chaingunners in the beginning of Map12...

Heretic speaking : GULAG.WAD. Nuff said.

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Chrome Bolt said:

One fine example I would say is Alien Vendetta Map 27. You just know when it's like a icon of sin arrangement of weapons.

Seconded. It felt like The Lord of the Rings in places.

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EarthQuake said:

I'm definitely going to have to go with Deus Vult. Nothing screams epic like MAP05. It was probably the first serious and anticipated project that really pushed the limits of Doom (heh, I mean ZDoom).


Though nowdays. Other ports can also run Map05.

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That DV2 map that you are scaling a mountain and you see that giant green structure and more in the background.

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nuts.wad is epic like traveling into the center black hole. time slows to a crawl and is finally crushed by the gravitational forces of so many imp fireballs.

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Lutz said:

Absolutely. Also, though maybe not as visually stunning, MAP30 is certainly 'epic' (if only in the sense that it takes at least 45 minutes to get though it...)

45 minutes? I remember playing that map straight for at least 12 hours.

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From a more modded perspective, Helm's Deep by Cyb is epic.

When I think of epic I think of Homer's Iliad, more than anything, and it's essentially a heroic military confrontation.

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Three words: Phocas Island 2. I can't think of any other Doom mapset I've played that gave me a greater sense of grandiose.

Most of Hellcore 2.0 and UTNT is pretty epic. IC2004/IC2005 are as well. And Phobos: Anomaly Reborn.

And of course DV/DVII, but those are a given. And I see plenty that have been suggested that I would easily second.

Krispavera said:

Thunderpeak definitely has some of the most incredbile architecture I've seen in a Doom wad. Also Doomdream is pretty epic in scale.


I would definitely say Blackrock was incredibly epic as well, if not more so.

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newt said:

Three words: Phocas Island 2. I can't think of any other Doom mapset I've played that gave me a greater sense of grandiose.


Thanks!


All the epic maps I can think of are already mentioned.

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