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Whoo

TNT 2: Devilution (Texture Pack in OP)

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More screens from the map by StupidBunny and myself. Awesomeness. Layout is done, just gotta finish monster and item placement now, which is about half done. Hopefully there are not too many VPO's, I can't check myself as Chocorenderlimits doesn't like my system, and I am pretty retarded when it comes to troubleshooting things like that. Thankfully Whoo and StupidBunny are checking the map as we speak. :)

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I haven't played that map but I love it already. Also fireblu kicks ass and should be used more often.

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Chocorenderlimits is giving me some stupid thing about how it can't find certain textures. I'm running it with both the texture wad and the map wad and it's still doing it. There's probably a simple solution and I'm probably just a moron, but does anybody know what the problem might be?

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Could you post a screen of which textures are not showing up?

Are you having this same problem in regular Chocolate Doom as well, or only in chocorenderlimits?

I ask this coz I am doing a bunch of work on the texture pack at the moment and I notice that in the original version, (the one you have) in the PATCH table and the TEXTURE1 lump all of the TNT textures/patches are listed in these two lumps, without having the appropriate patches in the texture pack itself. So in the patch table, all these patches are listed as not found, and the textures that use these patches are blank.

In theory this shouldn't be a problem, as whatever this texture pack doesn't display, the TNT wad itself should fill in the missing textures.

The funny thing is, Slade3 is detecting all the DOOM2 patches (which are also not present in the TNT2 texture pack), but not the TNT textures.

I wonder if this is the problem.

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So I haven't heard back on my map for awhile. I'd like to know of anything that needs fixing up (beside the WFALL1 texture not working properly).

Awesome screenshots, by the way. We really need to get more people into this.

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R_TextureNumForName: STARTAN1◘ not found
I have no idea why it's displaying that weird character after the texture name, but there you have it.

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Looks like that irritating bug caused by editing the TEXTUREx lump in SLumpEd, and then opening it in XWE. I believe that extra character is basically there because SLumpEd writes data further than it needs to, and XWE reads the data that it's not supposed to, and then overwrites the blank data in the original with SLumpEd's junk data. Or something to that effect.

I'm not sure (it's never actually happened to me), but you can probably fix the problem by manually resetting the offending texture name to what it's supposed to be.

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StupidBunny said:

R_TextureNumForName: STARTAN1◘ not found
I have no idea why it's displaying that weird character after the texture name, but there you have it.


Just ran a test through of the map on chocorenderlimits, and I got the same problem. Then I realized something: STARTAN1 and COMP2, which are both present in the map, are not in TNT.wad. Changing them should allow you to play through the map.

valkiriforce said:

So I haven't heard back on my map for awhile. I'd like to know of anything that needs fixing up (beside the WFALL1 texture not working properly).

Awesome screenshots, by the way. We really need to get more people into this.


I got half-way through when I started play testing, as it is a very long map. I'm probably not going to have the time to finish this weekend, so I'll see if alter is doing anything.

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Huh, weird -- STARTAN1 and COMP2 are textures only present in Doom 1. Wonder what they'd be doing in the map in the first place...

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Xaser said:

Huh, weird -- STARTAN1 and COMP2 are textures only present in Doom 1. Wonder what they'd be doing in the map in the first place...


It's because, when I first made the map, it was for Doom 1, not for TNT. Kyka has replaced the great majority of textures but I guess it's inevitable that some would still be in there. :P

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StupidBunny said (in the thread where I originally got this map):



It was meant to be a classic-style map with no new resources, which would include themes from all 3 episodes in one map. As you can see I only ever did most of the E1-themed part, but it's not a bad map ...


So I went back and read through StupidBunny's original post, partly printed above, and there are some oh so vague references to the possibility of an off chance that this map may at one point have been intended as an original Doom map. But do you think it occurred to me to to check for original Doom textures? Noooooooooo.

lol. My bad. Fortunately not hard to fix tho.

Thanks guys.

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So the big news at the moment is that TNT 2 is getting a new texture pack. Which is pretty neat imo, and it has been getting a pile of work done on it the last few weeks. I mean, I spent forever just getting those crappy TNT animated textures looking decent.

And if I have learned anything, it is this: that textures that look awesome on their own do not necessarily look great in an actual map. And also textures that in my mind would work really well do not always convey something that is very TNTish. Which many of you would probably say is a good thing. (edited).

Anyway, that is all tl;dr.

I have added a bunch of textures that fall sort of into three 'categories': the gray techbase style, the brown metal classic TNT style and a stone and brick style, as well as a bunch of assorted textures that just seem to work. The following screens are primarily from the first style mentioned: the grey techbase.

Comments and criticisms welcome, as I could use opinions on what textures look good to you guys, and whether things are staying true to the TNT 'style', whatever the hell that is.













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Looking good! Just keep in mind that a lot of tech is needed, so implementing console screens into the gray variants of BROWN96/BROWNGRN might also help in giving them a more TNT feel. You could also probably throw them into the existing STARTAN variants and/or the originals to see how they'd turn out.

I'm rather mediocre when criticizing textures (Since all I can do is color variants,) so hopefully essel comes along and adds his two cents.

EDIT: Sorry if you spent awhile on that barbed wire, but we switched it to t.v.'s version from PL2 around a year ago.

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Ragging on TNT's textures, and then turning around and making a bunch of grayscale versions of existing DOOM II textures. Bravo.

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Whoo said:

Looking good! Just keep in mind that a lot of tech is needed, so implementing console screens into the gray variants of BROWN96/BROWNGRN might also help in giving them a more TNT feel. You could also probably throw them into the existing STARTAN variants and/or the originals to see how they'd turn out.

I'm rather mediocre when criticizing textures (Since all I can do is color variants,) so hopefully essel comes along and adds his two cents.

EDIT: Sorry if you spent awhile on that barbed wire, but we switched it to t.v.'s version from PL2 around a year ago.


Thanks Whoo. Yeah, there is plenty of computer panels and such, there is a few more I am going to put in.

In regards to that barbed wire, that is cool. I actually have both t.v.'s version and this one in the current texture pack. I like this one in, not coz it it my own work, (well mostly not), but because I wanted to keep things 'feeling' as close to TNT as I could and this texture seems to do that. But I am happy enough to leave it out if that's what we decide.

Megamur said:

Ragging on TNT's textures, and then turning around and making a bunch of grayscale versions of existing DOOM II textures. Bravo.


I actually wasn't ragging on the TNT textures. I said what I said because everyone else seems to hate TNT and think it is a really ugly set of maps. I actually really like TNT, in fact much more than plutonia. But even I gotta admit that some of the original TNT textures haven't stood the test of time very well. Not as well as most of the plutonia textures have.

And the greyscale thing. I think it works really well. Sure grayscaling is not hard to do, but those textures give a good all-round basic structure that gives a lot of options when mapping for vanilla. Yeah it probably looks like everything is grayscaled, but there are only a handful of those in the pack. It's just that I used them quite a bit on this map.

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I guess I just saw it as a little pretentious to speak ill of TNT's textures and then replace them with some...fairly uncreative contributions. Though, for sure, some of the TNT textures are rather crude. I honestly liked most of the animated textures they added, though.

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

everyone else seems to hate TNT and think it is a really ugly set of maps. I actually really like TNT, in fact much more than plutonia. But even I gotta admit that some of the original TNT textures haven't stood the test of time very well. Not as well as most of the plutonia textures have.


Agreed! I've played TNT more than Plutonia but I like both equally, TNT is just "easier" to jump into when it comes to Final Doom.

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I hope you've kept in, or made better variants of, TNT's more bizarre, abstract textures. TNT has a lot of indescribably weird and garish textures but I think that's part of what gave it its character. Besides, it's possible for the textures to be strange and bold without looking nasty.

That said, the ones you have are good. They're pretty simple variants of existing textures but, then again, TNT had a fair amount of that already as well.

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Thanks guys for the feedback and criticisms.

Just for the hell of it, a few multi-patch textures:





And this is one of the animated textures that replace the SLADRIP1 series of animations. Most of the original TNT stuff is still there, but no spiders and spider webs, and that rotating saw is gone too. I just couldn't do a lot with it. The LITE5 texture on the R.H side flickers back and forth between bright and dim.



Sorry about some of the gray borders. My cropping in GIMP could have been neater, but meh.

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Megamur said:

I guess I just saw it as a little pretentious to speak ill of TNT's textures and then replace them with some...fairly uncreative contributions. Though, for sure, some of the TNT textures are rather crude. I honestly liked most of the animated textures they added, though.


I actually couldn't agree with this more myself. Alot of the modern texture packs I've been seeing getting praise lately are more polished, but way less interesting IMO, and lacking in the character department as well. :)

This is quite a nice one Kyka... http://img822.imageshack.us/i/officei.png/

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Thanks for the comments DeathEvocation.

To tell the truth, I have found it challenging to put together a pack of textures that feel like TNT but manage to fit in with the quality expectations of a modern megawad too. Many textures that look awesome I couldn't really use simply because they haven't fitted that TNT 'thing'.

And the other thing, of course, you can't make your textures too unique, coz then you are limiting the mappers options hugely. I mean, that Black texture that you liked, I agree, it is very TNT in style, but the reality is there is only a very limited number of places you could use it. You couldn't plaster that all over a level like you could with, say GRAY1 or a STARTAN texture.

So I have discovered that making a decent texture pack for a TNT sequel is a tricksy thing to accomplish.

Anyway, here are a couple I did just tonight. That computer bit on the second one is from the Doom Alpha. They are both pretty simple, but they are pretty usable too.





Feel free to point out patches that you guys think would work in a TNT setting. Am open to suggestions on this.

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Looks great and classic at the same time. Kyka, one of your strong points is definitely layout. :)

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Screen nr. 3 has the largest computer screen i've ever seen! :) I like it Kyka! You really capture the feel of TNT, which I like alot. It's also good to see that someone is active in this project. Been waiting for this for a very long time actually.

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Those new textures plus my appreciation for TNT are making me kind of want to contribute a map or two to this. I can't do anything for the next couple weeks because we have exams impending but afterwards I think I might put attempt something for this project.

Also those screenshots look awesome, definitely very TNT-esque which isn't an easy thing to capture. Nice work!

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I must say this project looks really nice. I like the new textures and the maps a lot! Really looking forward to playing this. :)

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Ensure that you will lay down effort on smart gameplay and non-linearity it this wad since it has so nice looks :)

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I gotta admit, the three maps I have done for this are reasonably linear. Non linearity is something I find kinda tough, tell the truth. But I think the gameplay is pretty solid in those maps all the same. Can't speak for the rest as I haven't seen any of them yet, but they will be good maps regardless.

Thanks heaps for the comments guys. Much appreciated. Yeah, The texture pack is nearing a point where I am happy with it, though remains to be seen whether Whoo and the guys actually running this project are also happy. Probably another half a dozen edits to do and it will be pretty close to done.

StupidBunny said:

Those new textures plus my appreciation for TNT are making me kind of want to contribute a map or two to this. I can't do anything for the next couple weeks because we have exams impending but afterwards I think I might put attempt something for this project.


You, Sir, have fallen for my devious trap. Also your timing is pretty good, because hopefully we will have a reasonably finalized set of textures in the next few weeks.

DeathevokatioN said:

Alot of the modern texture packs I've been seeing getting praise lately are more polished, but way less interesting IMO, and lacking in the character department as well. :)


You know, this comment really got me thinking, and I realised it was absolutely right. TNT had some pretty bizarre stuff in it, and a lot of it worked really well. So the last week or so, I have gone back and done some pretty experimental textures. Most of them were total fails, as expected, but I got several that look really good ingame, and just as importantly, fit in with the more usual textures nicely.

Exhibits A and B:




And also, a few more regular edits.

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