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Whoo

TNT 2: Devilution (Texture Pack in OP)

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@Ragnor.

Fixed that lazy archvile. See how I cut 2 of the 4 pillars out of the cage. Now he can see better.



@Pottus

texture FLOOR61W as ordered:


Other changes to texture pack:

New flat FIREBLUF (Doesn't scroll though):


Changed FLOOR1_1 so that the logo sits in the middle. (This always bugged me.)

Old:


New:

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Thanks, it will probably on be used once but hey it was hawkwinds suggestion and I've learned always follow through with hawkwinds suggestions =)

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Finished the demo!

Map 4 (Map 12?) is very good especially one certain area I wont speak about :D

I couldnt get the automap in the blue key room, however you get that is beyond my brain power. I think it should be moved elsewhere, as that one area will be spoiled if the automap is obtainable as soon as you get to the blue key area. Missed 4 secrets out of 14, one item (automap), and three monsters. I think theres far too many Barons/Hell Knights near the end, they pour into the dark maze and clog it up. That maze was pretty nice btw, great use of the zombies.

A lot of the secrets were simply "look at the automap, theres a different coloured line" rather than proper visual/audio clues, not my kind of secret but hey, TNT differed wildly as well due to the different mappers. I liked the berserk pack one, that one took me a while.

Kyka, about the archvile I mentioned, that wasnt the Archvile in question, but he did have issues attacking me, so that was a warranted fix. Dont forget the nearby barbed wire that you can walk through, near the actual torn wire.

This is the Archvile. Apparantly if you shoot someones toes enough, they'll keel over and die. Maybe edit that bit and make it so the archvile is a surprise when you climb up to it? As it is, its very anticlimactic.


In that same room, HOW ON EARTH DO YOU GET UP HERE NORMALLY? Only secret I couldnt get no matter what!

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Ragnor said:

Finished the demo!

Map 4 (Map 12?) is very good especially one certain area I wont speak about :D


Not hard to know what area you are referring to. :)

I couldnt get the automap in the blue key room, however you get that is beyond my brain power.



Heh, yeah that is a tough secret. And if you miss it at the right time, it is not gettable after that point.

Spoiler

When the central walkway is lowering, you can run off it and land onto the blue inset area that is set into the walls right around the room. Then simply follow this blue walkway right around the room to get the automap.

I think it should be moved elsewhere, as that one area will be spoiled if the automap is obtainable as soon as you get to the blue key area.


You may be onto something. I'll give it some thought.

Missed 4 secrets out of 14, one item (automap), and three monsters. I think there's far too many Barons/Hell Knights near the end, they pour into the dark maze and clog it up. That maze was pretty nice btw, great use of the zombies.


Thanks. I actually like the number of heavy monsters in that fight. It is the final fight, so I like how they are coming at you like a flood, backlit by the FIREBLU walls. And you do have a rocket launcher. But we'll see.

A lot of the secrets were simply "look at the automap, theres a different coloured line" rather than proper visual/audio clues, not my kind of secret but hey, TNT differed wildly as well due to the different mappers. I liked the berserk pack one, that one took me a while.


I'll check these out. I thought that all of the secrets had at least some audio/visual clue, but maybe not. If they have a visual clue, then there is probably no need for an automap clue as well, and sometimes vice versa can work as well.

Kyka, about the archvile I mentioned, that wasn't the Archvile in question, but he did have issues attacking me, so that was a warranted fix. Dont forget the nearby barbed wire that you can walk through, near the actual torn wire.

This is the Archvile. Apparantly if you shoot someones toes enough, they'll keel over and die. Maybe edit that bit and make it so the archvile is a surprise when you climb up to it? As it is, its very anticlimactic.
[Image]


Fixed the wire so it blocks now. And solved the archvile issue too. Pretty neatly I thought.

In that same room, HOW ON EARTH DO YOU GET UP HERE NORMALLY? Only secret I couldnt get no matter what!
[Image]

Spoiler

The little room with the archvile in it. Just outside the entry is a raised platform, with stairs winding around the archvile's central pillar. From that raised platform, turn right (facing east on the automap). Get as much of a runup as you can, and you will land on a rock ledge. Follow this ledge around to the right and you will reach the secret.

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Hmm. The barons at the flaming bit, I agree with that. Problem for me was, there was 6/7/8 of them clogged up at the entrance to the maze, so it was reduced to peekaboo with an SSG firing at the dark shapes slinging green plasma. There was only 3 of them in the intended fight area. I still barely got through all that alive though, so I have no real issue with it.

For the automap, I assumed it'd be something like a clever use of the switchs to open the door at the top, where you teleport, trigger a linedef somewhere and speed back down there to find it lowered, or a hidden teleporter somewhere. Never would have tried that.

For the backpack, I actually have tried that, a lot. Guess im doing it wrong?

Good thing im not the only one testing these, the better players will probably give better thoughts on the end fight. My brother still hasnt finished (He got sidetracked on Doom 64 EX) but he should be done by tomorrow. Hopefully he'll also sort out his Doomworld account by then :p

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Ragnor said:

Hmm. The barons at the flaming bit, I agree with that. Problem for me was, there was 6/7/8 of them clogged up at the entrance to the maze, so it was reduced to peekaboo with an SSG firing at the dark shapes slinging green plasma. There was only 3 of them in the intended fight area. I still barely got through all that alive though, so I have no real issue with it.

For the automap, I assumed it'd be something like a clever use of the switchs to open the door at the top, where you teleport, trigger a linedef somewhere and speed back down there to find it lowered, or a hidden teleporter somewhere. Never would have tried that.


Yeah. I like this idea, Imma play with this, as the way I had it was not very intuitive.

For the backpack, I actually have tried that, a lot. Guess im doing it wrong?


Hmmm. Just checked it out, and yeah, you must straferun to get onto that ledge, it cannot be reached with just regular running.

Does your controller allow you to straferun?

Good thing im not the only one testing these, the better players will probably give better thoughts on the end fight. My brother still hasn't finished (He got sidetracked on Doom 64 EX) but he should be done by tomorrow. Hopefully he'll also sort out his Doomworld account by then :p


Thanks heaps for your feedback. You may say you are not among the "better" players, but you have made suggestions as good as any playtesters. And anyway, the more playtesters, the better.

It must be pretty cool to have a brother to play Doom with. Do you guys coop or deathmatch or anything?

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

Changed FLOOR1_1 so that the logo sits in the middle. (This always bugged me.)

Old:


New:


I just noticed and wanted to comment, this is a very intelligent idea the simple things make a big difference once you add them all up.

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I have the controller set up nearly the same as the XBLA/PSN versions, where the left stick is move forward/back as well as strafe left/right, with the right stick being turning. Im pretty sure I can straferun, but in future I think I'll just noclip up there, repeatedly zooming up there only to fail over and over just isnt worth the frustration to me. Amusingly, my brother claims he got up there, but doesnt remember how -_-

As for co-op/deathmatch, only on the consoles. Ever played Go 2 It on co-op on Nightmare? Hilariously fun :D

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Most of those tweaks sound excellent, Pottus. I think they will make your great map even better.

Pottus said:

- Added some blocking to lifts at sectors 109, 721 & 726 monsters were also flagged deaf I hope this improves things

About this: I was thinking it'd simply be better to remove the zombies surrounding the tops of the lifts, because it's basically impossible for the player to kill them before the player gets shot--there's too many at too close a range, with no cover to protect the player. It's rather cheap. I'd suggest either removing the zombies entirely, moving them further away so the player has more time to react, or replacing them with enemies that don't use guns, so the player has some chance of dodging their attacks.

Not sure what to do about this it seems to be a problem with Doom will probably leave it unless there is strong demand
to do something

The sticky doortracks are a problem with DOOM, yes. You can read about it in greater detail here. In brief, it's basically a monster trying to endlessly open a door that's already open and getting stuck in an endless loop. This could be fixed by removing the doors, or replacing them with something monsters wouldn't try to open, like lifts or raising/lowering ceilings/floors. But it's really not a big problem if you want to keep it as is.

Regarding the BFG, I really don't see why the map needs one at all.

Spoiler

You can easily dispose of the final Revenant swarm in front of the exit switch with just the plasma gun and circlestrafing.

Maybe the megasphere should be moved to where the BFG is currently, and just get rid of the BFG altogether.

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Megamur said:

The sticky doortracks are a problem with DOOM, yes. You can read about it in greater detail here. In brief, it's basically a monster trying to endlessly open a door that's already open and getting stuck in an endless loop. This could be fixed by removing the doors, or replacing them with something monsters wouldn't try to open, like lifts or raising/lowering ceilings/floors. But it's really not a big problem if you want to keep it as is.


I could be wrong but do monsters only try to open doors with D1 or DR actions? Could it be fixed by making the door S1/SR and giving it a tag?

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purist said:

I could be wrong but do monsters only try to open doors with D1 or DR actions? Could it be fixed by making the door S1/SR and giving it a tag?


Yes, and by association yes IIRC.

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SR doors are very annoying though. You're fighting some monsters, the door in front of you is starting to close and you can't open it again until it fully closes. AAAAARGHHHHH hate this.

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Version 2 of Spider Colony (MAP25) has been sent to the playtesters and Whoo. Hopefully there's nothing too major to fix now.

Can't be long before all the slots are filled now.

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New version of Map22 will be sent to testers shortly here a complete changelog

Damn, thats lot of changes!

- Reworked green pillars at start
- Mancs in sector 399 will wake up when shot now
- Adjusted imps in yellow key trap slightly as suggested
- Adjusted sectors 406 400 so manc can be shot from windows
- Added a bit more health and ammo leading up yellow door
- Added more ammo beyond yellow key door area and removed some hitscanners
- Aligned ashwall pillars around sector 873
- Relocated rocket launcher to sector 1398
- Fixed soulsphere secret at sector 1472 larger sector
- Lindef 5809 was set to SR Door open stay conversely if you go into the room of caco's the door will close behind you with a W1 trigger
- Removed BFG and relocated the megasphere in it's place
- Adjusted blue key sector size
- Added a teleport between sector 367 - 370 improved nagivation
- Provided a way out of the exit room
- Changed textures on line 4257 and 4232
- linedef 6334 actually had the wrong texture fixed this and adusted the alignments
- Set linedef 1616 to correct texture
- Put some more backpacks ealier in the level as requested
- A bit more ammo/health has been added here and there
- Re-textured the grey-rock outside
- Added teleport near blue key for faster travel
- increased the sector size that the yellow key sits on
- Added better sound detection for cyber
- Moved stimpacks in sector 633 and sector and health potions in sector 678, armour bonuses moved sector 1274
- Put monster blocking around sector 784
- Split lines 3015, 3175, 3300 and 3303 and did a little bit of seg reduction
- Added some extra linedef triggers to lower that bridge around sector 398
- Dummy sectors all flagged hidden
- Imps marked deaf in sector 359 (element of surprise)
- Added a couple of medpacks to help get the yellow key (skills 3/4 only)
- Monsters in plasma room all marked deaf and extra sound blocking incorporated
- Line 4634 set to S1 berserk has only one chance to be obtained
- Removed mancubus from sector 412 as it was useless but left architecture design intact
- Added some blocking to lifts at sectors 109, 721 & 726 monsters were also flagged deaf I hope this improves things
- Bad placement of T90. It renders into the wall - Both lines 100 and 126. Similar for T89 fixed
- Lines 8167, 8159 flagged "secret" for surprise element also flagged 8394, 4583, 7964 and 8517 secret.
- Mid tex on line 647 and 749 were bleeding fixed this
- Removed tag from sector 161
- The player might not pick up the soulsphere at sector 1452 and hence miss out on getting a finding a secret credit.
I suggest making sector 331 the secret sector instead this has been done
- The techno pillars at sector 111 hang over the floor, depending on the players viewpoint. Not a good look.
I suggest removing them removed.
- Similar to point 7 - Drag the techo pillars away from lines 1998 and 2006 they have been dragged
- The texture CRACKLER is used at line 5353 lower for example, and this is fine. But the upper could use a new texture,
made from the flat FLOOR6_1 thanks for that texture KiiiYiiiKiiiA!.
- For more "realism", you could have extended sector 881 away from line 4896, since in the "real" world, the upper and lower on line 4896 would
not be lit by line 4877. This also applies to lines 4840, 4812 and 4939. I did some work on this but only to a certain extent any more would cause
visplane/seg problems
- The box of rockets at sector 525, render partly into sector 554, depending on players viewpoint adjusted the positions
- The ceilings of sectors 800 and 801 were probably meant to be GBRAYFL8 fixed
- Similar to point 6, I think it would be better to have sector 1471 as the secret rather than sector 1468 chage implemented
- Lines 2397 and 2385 missing upper textures fixed
- Lines 4451 and 7788 are missing upper textures fixed
- 100% kills not possible. Linedef 8477 is tagged but there is no corresponding sector tag. I suspect you meant sector 990 to be tagged 62 yes I did this has been set.



****
-The other thing was that a lot of the inset detailing. There was brown inset areas, blue, red, green, many different colors. Perhaps just a stronger sense of unity through the level. Fewer colors = stronger theme. I know this is a bit of an 'intangable', but give it some thought anyway, I feel the level could be even better with a little of this. That said though, the more I played the level, the more
all those little details grew on me.


I think I will leave this as is I like the different colors, I'll only change it if there is a strong demand and you even said it yourself they grew on you =)
****

****
-Monsters often become stuck on doortracks of the four doors directly south of sector 777, as well as the small
rooms all around sector 1083. It's not really a big deal, but it does look a little sloppy and can weaken the
effectiveness of enemies.

Not sure what to do about this it seems to be a problem with Doom will probably leave it unless there is strong demand
to do something

****

****
I feel like there should be a temporary wall between vertices 618, 674, 675 and 603, which lowers on a linedef after you pick up the super shotty.
This is to stop you walking into the yellow key room with nothing more than a single barrel shotty. Bad news if you do that.

I think i'm going to leave it like this, mainly because it is quite possible to surivive if you go in there or at least escape, I think it contributes
to non-linear aspect and I think putting bars there would make that corridor useless.
****

Again, thank-you testers!

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Looking like good progress everyone. I've been busy as hell with school and work the past couple weeks so I'll get around to playing through all the maps I've been PMed.

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Version 7 of Styx and Stones will be out soon.

In other news, I should consider finishing map24.

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I derped on that new version, forgot to move the player 1 start back to the start, re-sending to testers.

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Pottus said:

I think i'm going to leave it like this, mainly because it is quite possible to surivive if you go in there or at least escape, I think it contributes
to non-linear aspect and I think putting bars there would make that corridor useless.

Good thinking. It's more than possible to handle that section without the super shotgun--I did it myself. You just have to be careful and play more defensively.

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Is there a more efficient way of sending things to the testers than sending a PM to each individual one in 60 second intervals?

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I guess you could just post it in the thread, though you run the risk of people not associated with the project playing your unfinished maps.

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Megamur said:

I guess you could just post it in the thread, though you run the risk of people not associated with the project playing your unfinished maps.


I am not taking that risk.
Thats why I again suggest the utilization of a google group, especially with playtesting all but inevitable in the coming months.

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Megamur said:

Good thinking. It's more than possible to handle that section without the super shotgun--I did it myself. You just have to be careful and play more defensively.


True, it is certainly possible, but in making that suggestion originally I was thinking more of the players who retreat back towards the start, and thereby will run out of ammunition long before they can kill all those cacos and hell knights. This doesn't come down to skill, this comes down to wrecking your ability to progress.

Still, I am looking forward to version 2 of the map.

TheMionicDonut said:

Thats why I again suggest the utilization of a google group, especially with playtesting all but inevitable in the coming months.


I am all for something like this. I mean, every time I post out a new texture pack, I have to send it off to every mapper as well as playtester.

Something we used to do with Claustrophobit1024 was post the links to maps/texture packs publicly, but have the files themselves password protected, using a password that would be PM'd to all the relevant pelple.

Also Mionic, check your PM's when you get a chance, if you haven't already.

Also, progress on map 17. About 80% done now.

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What we need to do is run the maps through a chain of mappers dedicated exclusively to bug fixes to rely on everyone to fix there maps is often a monotonous process when the job can get done in more ways.

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I've had reports back from hawkwind and Megamur on Spider Colony, both of which I have addressed. Could Pottus and KiiiYiiiKiiiA (and Whoo?) let me know either way if there's anything you want me to look at and if so I will address those too before uploading V3.

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I didn't think you would be still using those textures that look like bumpmaps, I remember the last time when people suggested against it.

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purist said:

I've had reports back from hawkwind and Megamur on Spider Colony, both of which I have addressed. Could Pottus and KiiiYiiiKiiiA (and Whoo?) let me know either way if there's anything you want me to look at and if so I will address those too before uploading V3.


I'll look into that now before I sleep then have a report for you tomorrow.

Anyways, sending a new version of Map22 to the testers.

- Some transition work between rock11 and rock8 I really can't stand abrupt texture changes looked really ugly to me when I was looking at the map today.
- Fixed those lift switches
- Player start is in the right spot (hopefully) lol
- Flagged a control sector hidden

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So close to this now, even if this will be more like released public beta state like Requiem, Alien Vendetta or Plutonia 2 was it will be pure fun after all that time of waiting. Due to Cacowards slowdown you will probably manage to get at least mentioned or even awarded for this. ;-)

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Avoozl said:

I didn't think you would be still using those textures that look like bumpmaps, I remember the last time when people suggested against it.


After reading this comment, I posted the pic over on the pictures thread, and the general consensus seemed to be it is ok as long as it is used appropriately. And there is the non bumpmapped version in the texture pack also, so I figure it is ok if it stays. Also, some mappers have used it, so I can't at this point remove it anywa.

Thanks for the comment tho.

GBT3 said:

So close to this now, even if this will be more like released public beta state like Requiem, Alien Vendetta or Plutonia 2 was it will be pure fun after all that time of waiting. Due to Cacowards slowdown you will probably manage to get at least mentioned or even awarded for this. ;-)


Thanks dude. Although the cacowards will be done long before this is. Once we get the final maps in, then there is still bugfixing and playtesting and multiplayer stuff to do, so reality is it will still be a number of months before it is done.

And speaking of maps:









Tango my man, you may take these screenshots as proof that I have made at least some progress on that map of yours. Awesome map btw.

Whoo and crew. This map is about 70% done, but it is... *apologies*... not likely to be done by the deadline.

But as can be seen, it is definitely getting there.

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