TNT Map31 Officially fixed in some versions

[digger]

Here are pics of the two tnt wads.

I cant find anything different with doom 1 and 2 and quake106.

Fixed tnt

tnt map31

Fixed plutonia

made death match starts dm.dat

demos no longer crash looking for a fourth demo

Quake106 id anth is the same as the cd 11/5/96

[Maes]

Do the .exe files still say v1.9 on startup, or something else?

Demo compatibility? It's very important to ascertain whether this is just a one-time hack to v1.9, or a successive, released version with a greater version number.

[digger]

I dont know about demo compatability but it says its doom 2 1.9

So umm...how do I make patches?

[LogicDeLuxe]

Maes said:

this one only marked a difference to the IWAD, while the .exe version remained the same, and this potentially invalidating all demos.

Exactly what happened when Ultimate Doom came out. E1M1 was changed, the Lost Soul behavior was changed as well, afaIk. That I would call "difference to the IWAD, while the .exe version remained the same", ie. v1.9. They should have bumped it to v1.10, imho to avoid such confusion. Likewise, Final Doom should be v1.11, and the id Anthology version v1.12, and the source code release v1.13 to make it easily distinguishable.

so which one is the demoscene supposed to follow?

That one which comes with the game, I suppose. Or the longtic hack of the same version, if the rules permit it.

digger said:

Here are pics of the two tnt wads.

Only showing the WAD's directory, though. The most interesting parts are inside MAP10 and MAP31, which are the real changes. What the pictures show is just the result of it.

[Maes]

In any case, it's a bit too late to rectify it now. Perhaps id software themselves can take a position and shed some light over this? Is this a legitimate fix or a hack made by some disgrunted employee that found its way into production?

[Airman266]

I downloaded a patch for this a while back but all it did was make a new pwad that you could load and play Map 31 as a one-off level. It didn't help when playing the full game. I don't know jack about programming. Is there a patch out there that fixes it in the main iwad or can someone walk me through an easy way to fix it myself? It's one of my favorite levels in TNT and it sucks having to idkfa it and screw up my level progression. My only solution is to sit there and burn through all the extra ammo I got and take some rocket splash damage to fix my health and armor.

[LogicDeLuxe]

Airman266 said:

It didn't help when playing the full game.

Why not?

Is there a patch out there that fixes it in the main iwad or can someone walk me through an easy way to fix it myself?

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/810190
or
http://doomgate.de/content/files/ladopato/index_en.html

[Gez]

Airman266 said:

Is there a patch out there that fixes it in the main iwad or can someone walk me through an easy way to fix it myself?

If you want the official version that's the topic of this discussion, download the patch Enjay created:

Enjay said:

No problem.

http://www.rowand.myzen.co.uk/tntpatch.zip

I checked it with bspatch and it seems to work.

Download bsdiff as well. Extract the patch and bspatch.exe to the directory where you keep your iwads, and open a command windows there (with Vista, you can hold shift and do a right-click on the folder, then select "open command window here").

In that window, type the following code:

bspatch tnt.wad tntp.wad tntpatch.dif

If you get the UAC window telling you a program is trying to access files, tell it to let it do so. You should now have a tntp.wad file. Rename tnt.wad as tnt-ori.wad to keep a backup copy, and rename tntp.wad to tnt.wad to use the patched version.

[Airman266]

Well thanks. And the reason why it didn't help in the full game was because the full iwad wasn't patched, it was just a patched version of level 31 (which I thought it was illegal to redistribute a modified version of an original level)? But thanks for the instructions.

Edit: yeah I just tried it, works perfect. Thanks very much!

[LogicDeLuxe]

Airman266 said:

which I thought it was illegal to redistribute a modified version of an original level

Usually yes, but since TeamTNT itself uploaded it for everyone, this doesn't seem to be a problem. If id actually cared, they would have released an official patch long ago, and TeamTNT would not actually have uploaded the wad in the first place.

[Enjay]

Speaking of patches, I'm wondering if my, or another, patch should be released on idgames or something?

[LogicDeLuxe]

Enjay said:

Speaking of patches, I'm wondering if my, or another, patch should be released on idgames or something?

Of course it should. Complete DOS patches, ie. they should patch all files which differ and being easy to use by just unzip it and double click a file.
And there should be downgrade patches for the historic directory as well.
Maybe call it "unofficial patches to officially updated Final Doom" or something.

[LogicDeLuxe]

I just compared my complete boxed version with the id anthology version (directx folder excluded).
Files on CD:

Binary files Final Doom boxed/DOOM95.EXE and Final Doom id anthology/DOOM95.EXE differ
Binary files Final Doom boxed/PLUTONIA/RESOURCE.1 and Final Doom id anthology/PLUTONIA/RESOURCE.1 differ
diff -r Final Doom boxed/PLUTONIA/RESOURCE.DAT Final Doom id anthology/PLUTONIA/RESOURCE.DAT
2,3c2,3
< SIZE=8409267
< EXPSIZE=18320000
---
> SIZE=8721193
> EXPSIZE=19200000
Binary files Final Doom boxed/PLUTONIA.WAD and Final Doom id anthology/PLUTONIA.WAD differ
Binary files Final Doom boxed/TNT/RESOURCE.1 and Final Doom id anthology/TNT/RESOURCE.1 differ
diff -r Final Doom boxed/TNT/RESOURCE.DAT Final Doom id anthology/TNT/RESOURCE.DAT
2,3c2,3
< SIZE=8827838
< EXPSIZE=19100000
---
> SIZE=9024922
> EXPSIZE=19600000
Binary files Final Doom boxed/TNT.WAD and Final Doom id anthology/TNT.WAD differ

Plutonia installed:

diff -r c:\IDANTHOL/DM.DAT c:\BOXED/DM.DAT
1c1
< TITLE=Final DOOM: The Plutonia Experiment
---
> TITLE=Final DOOM: TNT - Evilution
8,39c8,39
< MAP01=Congo
< MAP02=Well of Souls
< MAP03=Aztec
< MAP04=Caged
< MAP05=Ghost Town
< MAP06=Baron's Lair
< MAP07=Caughtyard
< MAP08=Realm
< MAP09=Abattoire
< MAP10=Onslaught
< MAP11=Hunted
< MAP12=Speed
< MAP13=The Crypt
< MAP14=Genesis
< MAP15=The Twilight
< MAP16=The Omen
< MAP17=Compound
< MAP18=Neurosphere
< MAP19=Nme
< MAP20=The Death Domain
< MAP21=Slayer
< MAP22=Impossible Mission
< MAP23=Tombstone
< MAP24=The Final Frontier
< MAP25=The Temple of Darkness
< MAP26=Bunker
< MAP27=Anti-Christ
< MAP28=The Sewers
< MAP29=Odyssey of Noises
< MAP30=The Gateway of Hell
< MAP31=Cyberden
< MAP32=Go 2 it
---
> MAP01=System Control
> MAP02=Human BBQ
> MAP03=Power Control
> MAP04=Wormhole
> MAP05=Hanger
> MAP06=Open Season
> MAP07=Prison
> MAP08=Metal
> MAP09=Stronghold
> MAP10=Redemption
> MAP11=Storage Facility
> MAP12=Crater
> MAP13=Nukage Processing
> MAP14=Steel Works
> MAP15=Dead Zone
> MAP16=Deepest Reaches
> MAP17=Processing area
> MAP18=Mill
> MAP19=Shipping/Respawning
> MAP20=Central Processing
> MAP21=Administration Center
> MAP22=Habitat
> MAP23=Lunar Mining Project
> MAP24=Quarry
> MAP25=Baron's Den
> MAP26=Ballistyx
> MAP27=Mount Pain
> MAP28=Heck
> MAP29=River Styx
> MAP30=Last Call
> MAP31=Pharaoh
> MAP32=Caribbean
Binary files c:\IDANTHOL/DOOM2.EXE and c:\BOXED/DOOM2.EXE differ
Binary files c:\IDANTHOL/PLUTONIA.WAD and c:\BOXED/PLUTONIA.WAD differ

TNT installed:

Binary files c:\IDANTHOL/DOOM2.EXE and c:\BOXED/DOOM2.EXE differ
Binary files c:\IDANTHOL/TNT.WAD and c:\BOXED/TNT.WAD differ

In plutonia.wad map12 and map23 differ.
In map12, they added 8 deathmatch starts. The old version has none. Same thing for map23. Anything else in those maps stays exactly the same. Therefore Plutonia shouldn't break compatibility at all, unless something really went wrong with the different executable.

[digger]

I have the patch for the dos files ready.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/nwn54jo2mam/fdoomup.zip

The patcher is the same as the ultimate doom to doom 1.1 patch.

[digger]

Are the patches good enough to upload to the idgames database?

Also doom95 is different for some reason.

757 kb 11/26/96

756 kb 06/06/96

[Mad Butcher]

digger said:

Are the patches good enough to upload to the idgames database?

Both patches worked flawlessly for me. :)

[myk]

LogicDeLuxe said:
Exactly what happened when Ultimate Doom came out. E1M1 was changed, the Lost Soul behavior was changed as well, afaIk. That I would call "difference to the IWAD, while the .exe version remained the same", ie. v1.9. They should have bumped it to v1.10, imho to avoid such confusion. Likewise, Final Doom should be v1.11, and the id Anthology version v1.12, and the source code release v1.13 to make it easily distinguishable.

Anything published after DOOM II was kind of "not really by id" and without the participation of some of its members, including John Carmack, which may explain some of the messiness (such as the lack of version changing when map and engine changes are present.)

Likewise, the changes done to the IWADs for the Anthology must have been done or added by some employed guys in charge of the compilation, without much attention from the big honchos at id who have been providing the unmodified WADs to this day on their regular distribution methods, such as individual game CDs, their site, Steam or the Collector's Edition.

The more time passes, the more pointless making upgrades to existing games becomes and the more it affects users who have gotten used to the WADs in their original form, unless the changes are made with necessary ones, such as in porting the game to some platform, where incompatibilities and possible unforeseen side effects won't matter.

This find is certainly interesting but more of a quirk or curiosity than a "ooh, so they did officially fix it."

Usually yes, but since TeamTNT itself uploaded it for everyone, this doesn't seem to be a problem.

You can use id levels as a base if they require the IWAD they are from.

[LogicDeLuxe]

myk said:

(such as the lack of version changing when map and engine changes are present.)

Well, they did bump the source release to v1.10 at least.

myk said:

unless the changes are made with necessary ones, such as in porting the game to some platform, where incompatibilities and possible unforeseen side effects won't matter.

And what about bugs preventing a usual game from working. We are not talking about some misaligned textures or such minor detail.

In Plutonia, there were maps with no deathmatch starts. Adding them does not break anything, so nothing to worry about.

The multiplayer key in TNT is similar. Solving the map without the key is clearly an exploit and not the intended way. Demo compatibility issues might appear if you managed to block a Lost Soul with the key, which seems very unlikely in this case.

The biggest concern for demo compatibility is TNT map10, since the nodes and reject table differ for no apparent reason. Also the secret count might mess up the timing at the level stats screen.

For the sake of demo compatibility, we should also provide a downgrade patch. There might be some "lucky people" which only have the id Anthology version.

myk said:

You can use id levels as a base if they require the IWAD they are from.

Which isn't feasible since we have Freedoom. Unless, the map is distributed as a patch to id's IWAD.

[myk]

LogicDeLuxe said:
Well, they did bump the source release to v1.10 at least.

Carmack was behind that, though.

And what about bugs preventing a usual game from working. We are not talking about some misaligned textures or such minor detail.

Consider that we know there's already another patch which solves that problem. See, now you have the complication of two "official" fixes for TNT, one in a certain distribution by the publishers, another offered separately by the makers.

For the sake of demo compatibility, we should also provide a downgrade patch. There might be some "lucky people" which only have the id Anthology version.

Yeah, good point about providing a downgrade. The good thing is that either fix, editing the IWAD or playing through without the fix are all available options. A new patch shouldn't be a problem, and basing it on the those Anthology versions makes it more useful or reasonable than some arbitrary fix by some user.

Which isn't feasible since we have Freedoom. Unless, the map is distributed as a patch to id's IWAD.

That doesn't affect id or their license directly. It could hypothetically make them (or their owners, ZeniMax) angry at Freedoom for being compatible with add-ons that they may consider derivative, but it doesn't alter what add-ons you can or can't make for the games. In any case, I agree that a patch is better than providing a full level for a case like this, where a fix by the publishers is involved, as opposed to modifications authored by the community.

[digger]

For lucky people, downgrade patches for final doom.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/mylnkuzznzy/fdowngd.zip

id Anthology final doom 11/96 to 06/10/96

[PimPamPet]

This thread caught my attention and for the sake of curiousity I checked my own copy of the Anthology. Guess what? I've got the 11/96 version as well! I wonder how many of these were made. I checked a friend's copy too, which had the 6/96 version. It does seem strange that id only decided to include the patched version in some packages instead of all of them.

I wonder if there's any other differences between these different versions of the id Anthology... Could anyone be bothered to check? (My friend's out of town currently.)