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hardcore_gamer

Does PSX Doom still suffer from framerate problems if played on the PS2?

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I own PSX Doom and PSX Final Doom. But my PS2 broke and stopped working years ago and i never bothered to buy a new one. But i have a old PS1 that my uncle gave be some time ago (only for a limited time though) so that allows me to play my PSX Doom games. But the thing is, the games often suffer from framerate issues, and these issues can range from being minor to being major. And since the PS2 is allot more powerful then the PS1 i was wandering if playing the games on a PS2 would get rid of the shitty framerate from playing PSX DOOM and PSX Final Doom on a PS1.

Can anyone here confirm if using a PS2 instead of a PS1 to play these games actually results in a better framerate?

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I have a PSX, PS2 and PSX Doom, I can playtest tonight for you.

I wouldn't be surprised if it actually slows down. GT2 is horrible on PS2 compared to PSX.

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I don't recall running into issues playing Doom and Final Doom on the PS2. Like Supar Jamie, I'll give it a go here later tonight on both my PS2 and even my PS3 and see what I get.

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Super Jamie said:

I have a PSX, PS2 and PSX Doom, I can playtest tonight for you.

I wouldn't be surprised if it actually slows down. GT2 is horrible on PS2 compared to PSX.

Nems said:

I don't recall running into issues playing Doom and Final Doom on the PS2. Like Supar Jamie, I'll give it a go here later tonight on both my PS2 and even my PS3 and see what I get.


Thank all of you for the effort you are putting into this :)

scalliano said:

Doom and Final Doom are both fine on the PS2 and PS3.


Hmmmmmm, well considering the framerate issues that exist when playing the game on a ordinary PS1 then the PS2 might be improving performance after all. I will wait for what Super Jamie and Nems have to say before jumping to a conclusion though.

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hawkwind said:

@hardcore_gamer

Have you tried using a PSX emulator ? If not do a google search.


I don't want to play PSX Doom on a emulator. Doing so would beat the purpose of having a cool console version of Doom that one can play on a TV Screen in the first place.

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hardcore_gamer said:

I don't want to play PSX Doom on a emulator. Doing so would beat the purpose of having a cool console version of Doom that one can play on a TV Screen in the first place.


I play PC Doom on my HDTV ;D

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I played PSX E1M1 and MAP01 then did the same on PS2. No discernible speedup or slowdown. The engine lags in the same spots for the same amount on both consoles.

I couldn't try the PS2 fast load or texture filtering as that requires the lid switch to work. I've physically modded that out of my PS2 for my SwapMagic and cbf pulling it apart again.

Out of interest, my PS2 is a slimline V14 SCPH-75002 which is known for its' shitty laser and backward compatibility issues, so if it plays well/same on my console it'll play on any PS2. The later slims had better compatibility, and a handful of PSX games only work on the original fat PS2.

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hawkwind said:

@hardcore_gamer

Have you tried using a PSX emulator ? If not do a google search.

Emulators aim to preserve the processor speed. It would not help the 'performance' case.

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It sounds strange that performance would be better on the PS2: PS1 compatibility is achieved by having the actual PS1 hardware in embedded form on the PS2 motherboard itself, so it's a sort of "auxiliary hardware compatibility layer", not software emulation or direct hardware compatibility on better hardware (like e.g. between a Core 2 and a Pentium I).

That being said, a few titles are incompatible or may play differently due to other differences in the hardware.

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leileilol said:

Emulators aim to preserve the processor speed. It would not help the 'performance' case.

I think you may be wrong. Last time I fired up ePSXe I had Gran Turismo going on my PC at a resolution and smoothness that even the PS2 only dreamt of. I think you can restrict back to have a "stock" PSX but you can also use what extra processor power there is to remove the stock FPS cap. Like PrBoom-Plus does.

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Maes said:

It sounds strange that performance would be better on the PS2: PS1 compatibility is achieved by having the actual PS1 hardware in embedded form on the PS2 motherboard itself, so it's a sort of "auxiliary hardware compatibility layer", not software emulation or direct hardware compatibility on better hardware (like e.g. between a Core 2 and a Pentium I).

That being said, a few titles are incompatible or may play differently due to other differences in the hardware.


Trufax. The only differences IIRC are that the 4MB region of RAM available to the PS1 CPU is shadowed from the last 4MB block available to the Emotion Engine; and disc access speed may vary due to different disc drives. Quality of RAM may have a negligible impact on game framerate, but I doubt it severely.

Generally speaking, PSX Doom should operate exactly the same on the PS2 as it did on PSX.

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Super Jamie said:

stuff about extra CPU/GFX dough and old PSX games


This is the case with modern PC games running on 3D accelerated hardware: since the gameplay timing is decoupled and entirely asynchronous from the screen rendering, having a 1000x more powerful graphics card than the original (e.g. an nVidia 8900GT for a game designed to run on an S3), it will just render everything "instantly". The extra CPU time can then be either wasted (if the game has a built-in framerate cap and wastes extra time with a delay loop) or be used for the OS, but the gameplay speed won't be broken. A few games will render multiple, fine-grained frames if there's enough CPU/GPU power to do it.

I don't know if PSX and console/arcade games are designed with potential hardware upgrades in mind, since the hardware is supposed to be fixed, and screen rendering on some hardware/software combos is synchronous (speeding up the CPU results in speeding up everything).
That's why e.g. you can't just speed up the CPU or the rendering subsystem of a Pac Man arcade or even a NEO GEO (and even if you do, it will either have no positive effect or break the display or even the games themselves): the timing is usually hardcoded, but a few such games appear to have decoupled processing/rendering.

Some other, like e.g. Bubble Bobble or some Neo Geo games like Metal Slug actually slow down without skipping frames, so they might benefit from faster hardware without speeding up everything if there's a separate timer.

however since PSX games usually have variably variable frame skips and were coded with differing 3D scene complexities in mind, it's quite possible that they may benefit from added processing power (or at least, suffer "gracefully" from reduced power) ;-)

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Hmmm, there was one important thing i forgot to mention, the game i was playing was not PSX DOOM but PSX Final Doom and it lagged allot during some of the levels. The Master levels lagged in particular.

The frame rate during most of PSX Doom is actually fairly solid however.

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hardcore_gamer said:

The frame rate during most of PSX Doom is actually fairly solid however.


Ugh.....forget that, i was just playing E4M2 on PSX Doom and it lagged like hell.

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There's even noticeable lag when you walk up this first set of stairs in E1M1:



I have no idea why people rave about the PSX port. The controls suck and the engine lags like a bitch in the simplest of places, even with the lesser detail level of the JagDoom maps. The renderer isn't even aspect-corrected.

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Super Jamie said:

There's even noticeable lag when you walk up this first set of stairs in E1M1:

Image

I have no idea why people rave about the PSX port. The controls suck and the engine lags like a bitch in the simplest of places, even with the lesser detail level of the JagDoom maps. The renderer isn't even aspect-corrected.


PSX Doom is still an awesome port, it has colored lights, new good sounds. A new lighting system (well the lighting looks different at the very least) and it merges Doom 1 and 2 into a single long game full of awesome.

And the controls are not not nearly as bad as some people claim. I for one have no problems with playing the game without the analog sticks. I can't move around as fast but the game is still more then playable.

Also, what does aspect-corrected mean?

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I was never much a fan of the new sounds. I grew up on PC Doom so hearing PSX Doom is odd to me. I can understand how someone would associate those sounds with Doom if they played the PSX version first. I tend to hate any sound replacements (even all the 90s PWADs with a new pistol sound) so maybe I'm just a grumpy old man :P

But I don't think colored lighting makes up for the rest of the shortcomings of the engine. I'd have concentrated on making the game run smoother on the PSX than adding more features to potentially slow it down.

hardcore_gamer said:

Also, what does aspect-corrected mean?

http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Aspect_ratio. Walk around MAP01 on PC and PSX side by side, the difference is very noticeable.

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Super Jamie said:

I have no idea why people rave about the PSX port. The controls suck and the engine lags like a bitch in the simplest of places, even with the lesser detail level of the JagDoom maps. The renderer isn't even aspect-corrected.


I don't think you have tried Hexen for the psx.
That port makes any port look great...

Also I tried both the first levels of Doom and Final Doom on psx.
The results where no real diffrences between my small psx and fat ps2.

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