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doom_marine666

what doom monster do you hate!

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Arch-Vile and any custom monster that can revive the dead ones.

Pain Elemental, augh...hate that LS spawning SOB! And it's even worse if you use a source port that removes the 20 lost soul limit in the map..

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Lost Souls and by extension Pain Elementals. LSs are so annoying and they can really deal some damage when they get a good consecutive attack run going. PEs are just a pain in the ass, especially when they start hiding behind other monsters, and when they die they throw even more of the goddamn things at you.

Cyberdemons always waste me at close range. Chaingunners can be both a blessing and a curse, but that depends more on the mapper than the enemy.

I used to hate Revenants and Arch Viles, but I have come to appreciate them as I've tried to both play and make harder maps. Once you get your dodge timed well enough they can be easy in alot of situations. Still, someone placing one in the open with little chance to dodge usually gets a disgusted ragequit from me.

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When the lost souls and PE's really get annoying is when you run out of ammo and you auto switch to the rocket launcher.. while you're still holding down ctrl or the mouse button.

What I said above would probably fix the issue, unless they arent the only monsters in the same area.

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DuckReconMajor said:

I also hate the lost souls themselves. Killing them just feels like a waste of ammo.


I have to agree with this. It's bad enough that they drop no ammo, but they also don't count toward your kills. Try fighting barons or arachnotrons in a room full of lost souls, and you'll quickly see what a nuisance they can be. It is so humiliating to fire the plasma rifle at the baron and have it intercepted by a lost soul while the baron eats you.

Somewhat related, the monster I dread most would have to be archvile or revenants. They make really spooky sounds and their attacks are both difficult to avoid in bad circumstances.

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I hate Arch-Viles. At the very least they should be a little easier to kill.

Pain Elementals too, ugh. I fucking hate those. Every time I hear one scream, a vein in my forehead pops out and my vision goes white with rage. Lost Souls are retarded, and for that matter any type of "nuisance" enemy from any game; they're more annoying than challenging, and don't really add that much to the gameplay. Nothing will ever top the frustration caused by those fucking piece of shit severed hands from Blood, though.

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I don't have much of a "hate" but more of a strong dislike to the Spider Mastermind... Why?



IT'S GOT TOO LITTLE HEALTH!
Bastards got the size to hold atleast 3000, making it a tougher opponent.

Otherwise, no complaints, LS and Baron and Arachno infights are always fun to do so I can waste what is left if I'm enjoying my time and not speed running.

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Part of me wants to say that I hate imps. Over the years of seeing thousands of those things, seeing one is almost like having a, "Not again!" feeling. Yet, I can't bring myself to dismiss their usefulness in early levels, so I'll let it slide.

I'll probably go ahead and agree that lost souls are the worst enemy of all-time. Not only is their attack annoying and kind of dangerous when a couple are right next you, but they're so stupid that sometimes, they just flat out forget what they're target was. Though... I do love it when they all attack each other.

Originally, I would've said that revenants were hands-down my least favorite, but that's strictly in large, open areas. In hallways and smaller rooms, they're a blast to face. And, if utilized properly, they're they only monsters that still give me a jolt every once in a while (even if only because they're shriek is so damn loud).

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Playing through ZPack, the spiderdemon from the end of episode 2 is what the spiderdemon should have been. This sipderdemon has a double chaingun, as well as a BFG, and more health. I enjoyed fighting it. Still a bit easy, but better.

Also the hell knight. Cheap recolour. 'nuff said.

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depends on the map, but several zombiemen in some areas can be very annoying. shotgun guys are the most annoying as they can take a large chunk of your health and they are usually numerous.

lost souls are the same, but they arent as bad since i usually keep the "limit pain elementals to 20 lost souls" compactflag on.

revenants are hard to dodge usually, but i find them easier to dodge in smaller areas.

arch-viles have to low a pain chance. especially when a mapper puts one in an unreachable tower and you need to kill it with an SSG. either rasing it's pain chance or lowering its health would be better.

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I used to hate Revvies with a passion, but since I learned how to fight their attacks, I've come to appreciate them, and almost enjoy their ability to kick other monsters asses in slaughter maps

My hatred was replaced with Pain Elemental and Lost Soul.... Fighting twenty lost souls and a pain elemental hiding behind them all is just no fun :(

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I hate the Commander Keen the most, because he looks bad in Doom 2 and doesn't do anything save as being a trigger. Even Mr Head on a Stick is better, because his artwork is better and makes more inane sounds.

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Spider mastermind. Ugly, badly balanced and too easy.

If the lost souls spawned by PEs had 40-50 health or so instead of 100 I think people would appreciate the pain elemental more.

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Heh, sometimes I feel like the minority who doesn't really 'hate' any of the monsters. The only time I don't like them is when they are poorly placed.

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Erik said:

If the lost souls spawned by PEs had 40-50 health or so instead of 100 I think people would appreciate the pain elemental more.

Go play Doom 64 (or the Absolution TC for the computer). Not only LS have lesser hitpoints, but PEs look much better too, not dumb like the computer ones. And they're even a serious threat; they're as bad as they appear.

Meh, I don't hate the SMM. He or she has specific attributes that are only effective when the player doesn't have whatever necessary equipment and the environment is fit for the spider. If the player only has the hitscan weapons, no partial invisibility (let alone invincibility) and the environment is big enough for the demon, with large circular buildings to make hiding difficult, then the odds go in the favour of the mastermind. Not even blue armor on the player would help there.

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printz said:

...then the odds go in the favour of the mastermind. Not even blue armor on the player would help there.

Which, in turn, makes fighting it a matter of luck. :P That's one of the problems with the mastermind: Either it's going to be very easy (even a little cover to hide behind, or shooting from a far with plasma) or a coin toss (close range without cover or bfg). There's just no middle ground.

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Revenants.

They have the single most damaging projectile attack after the cyberdemon's rocket (max 80 HP damage, which also happens way too often). Only being hit simultaneously by multiple mancubus fireballs or a single rocket to the face may be worse. In maps where armor is scarce and health is anywhere < 80%, any confrontation with a Revenant may be a sudden death.

Considering the homing rockets, the high numbers in which they're used, their thin hit box, their movement and attack speed etc. they are by far the most dangerous and aggressive of the middle tier monsters, even if they are not the toughest.

They also have one of the lowest attack delays for their fireball attack (so if they use it at close range, it's far too quick to cancel and too late to dodge).

These motherfuckers are so mean that even in infighting, they can take down all lesser monsters down with minimal damage to themselves, and they will win over a cacodemon and even a hell knight if the exchange is mostly projectyles, where they have the advantage of homing and of greater damage. With the right timing, they can even win over a mancubus in melee (they just keep punching, and the mancubus keeps moaning in pain). Even in large nuts.was-like maps, the most frequent survivors are Barons of Hell and Revenants.

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In nuts.wad the survivors are always only barons. Really. The barons whoop the revenants like no tomorrow. I also saw the cacodemon high aggression win over the revenants many times.

Jodwin said:

Which, in turn, makes fighting it a matter of luck.

Or a matter of attention. Just make the covers less easy to reach, but not inexistent, and the player will have to be more careful and faster, but not lucky, to increase his chances. That doesn't mean the spiderdemon becomes a hit point behemoth, it still dies quickly, but manages to make the player nervous for the short time it's alive.

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This inspired me to write an incredibly long argument about Revenants, of which Creaphis must feel undoubtedly proud.

printz said:

In nuts.wad the survivors are always only barons. Really. The barons whoop the revenants like no tomorrow.


I guess that depends on whether you coax them to fight preferentially amongst them early on. If you just do merry-go-rounds in any nuts.wad settings however, monsters like arachnotrons and mancubi are among the first to be slain, while revenants are, surprisingly, in the "high echelons" (aka, last to be slain). Cacodemons may last longer because of their flight capability, but for one-on-ones with revenants, it's the same thing: projectiles are lose-win, melee is win-win.

The wiki is irrefutable: if the exchange is projectiles only, a Revenant can kill a Cacodemon in 9.50 shots avg, while the Cacodemon requires 11.86 avg. The situation is reversed in melee-only, though.

Roughly, the same numbers, only reversed, apply to Hell Knight vs Revenant case with projectiles only: it's disturbing to note that the Hell Knight may come just two-three hits short of dying despite having twice the hit points of the Revenant. That's what I call _combat efficiency_.

The Baron is pretty much the only monster that can beat up the Revenant while taking a reasonably low damage itself, especially if it reaches into melee, where it has a damage advantage. The only thing keeping them from getting as beat up as the Knight or the caco, are their higher hit points, especially if the exchange is mostly projectiles. Still, it may lose nearly half its health to a "measly" Revenant.

The Revenant has the best combat efficiency (mobility, speed, damage, range, attack modes) for its health points, period.

Compare with e.g. the Mancubus that can deal more damage, has more health but just can't deal it as efficiently as the Revenant (if you get hit by mancubi more than revenants, then you must suck :-) )

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Revenants. Those god damn revenants.



And lost souls, but they're just lame and boring to fight whereas the god damn revenants are soul killers.

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printz said:

Or a matter of attention. Just make the covers less easy to reach, but not inexistent, and the player will have to be more careful and faster, but not lucky, to increase his chances. That doesn't mean the spiderdemon becomes a hit point behemoth, it still dies quickly, but manages to make the player nervous for the short time it's alive.

1. Run behind cover.
2. Take a small peak out, shoot with SSG.
3. Get back behind cover.
4. If mastermind comes too close, just step to the other side of the cover (usually a pillar).

Rinse and repeat. The only thing that's more systematic and simple in Doom is circlestrafing cybers in huge open areas. :P


The reason why revenants usually come up last is because they're often in the biggest numbers (they take less space so they are easy to spam) and because of the homing missiles. End of story.

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Jodwin said:

1. Run behind cover.
2. Take a small peak out, shoot with SSG.
3. Get back behind cover.
4. If mastermind comes too close, just step to the other side of the cover (usually a pillar).

Rinse and repeat. The only thing that's more systematic and simple in Doom is circlestrafing cybers in huge open areas. :P

Not so easy if you're at 30% health and too slow to hide during those 20 tics of heating up the spider.

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Jodwin said:

1. Run behind cover.


1-pixel wide columns <3

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I find the Icon of sin a big disappointment, and I wish the spidermastermind was more of an opponent.

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Arch-vile. I mean he not only can burn you and then blow you up, but he can also resurrect monsters. I hate them no matter what, they're so annoying.

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The only thing worse than a bunch of Revenant, is a bunch of revenants backed by an Archvile.

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Afte playing through Plutonia from map1 to 27, including the secret levels, I have develoepd a hatered of chaingunners and revenants. Sure I already hated them, but the sheer numbers of them in Plutonia above anything else tips it to the next level. Not only that, thier often thrown in with Archviles. Three levels have even used the "immortal chaingunner" trick, where you have a hidden archvile reviving chaingunners infinitely. Argh.

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