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doom_marine666

what doom monster do you hate!

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Reveants: Frick'n homing-missiles, and just still just give me the creeps.

Archviles: Only when they "snipe" or have little cover close up.

Chaingunners: These guys have been kicking my ass as of late for some reason. (read: me = getting old and senile)

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Woolie Wool said:
A version that does only 1d5 damage rather than 3d5 damage per shot would have been less annoying and could have been used more liberally and mixed in with other zombie types. To me, such a small and frail monster doesn't "deserve" that kind of firepower.

I'd agree if the SSG and megasphere weren't available. With a weaker chaingun dude, there would be no zombies to offset them decently. With those extra items, DOOM II is more about using higher powered weapons than DOOM and thus needs tougher opponents. The original zombies are weak canon fodder for the easier, earlier levels in DOOM II WADs.

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That's odd, because I almost never use the SSG against zombies. It's just too slow to deal with several zombies attacking from all sides. I use the chaingun against zombies if I can. I would have preferred a chaingunner with 1d5 damage (even that is still more dangerous than a shotgunner) scattered in among zombiemen and shotgunners, or else a far tougher (200-300 health), scarier full-power chaingunner (perhaps something like Doom 3's Commandoes) that has its own sounds. The role and stats of the original Chaingunner don't really fit for me. Then there are the really, really overpowered Bestiary zombies, which seem designed solely to humiliate the player with sudden zombie deaths. There's one with a goddamn BFG for fuck's sake.

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The SSG isn't bad against a bunch of zombies, especially the tougher HWDs. You can get two of them and maybe damage more with one shot. It also guarantees you'll kill one quickly at point blank, as the shotgun can fail sometimes. Other weapons are useful against them, of course, depending on how they show up and who accompanies them. I wasn't referring to necessarily using the SSG against them in particular, though, as you also have a player that's expecting to deal out and take more damage in general, from the enhanced DOOM II monster attacks (that chaingun amongst them.) To me they add a lot with their constant sniping, and still retain the usual, easily dispatched, zombie character.

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i really, really hate lost souls.

why is it that every time i go to shoot another monster with a rocket launcher, a damn lost soul flies in my face, and i end up blowing myself up, along with the lost soul, to bits.

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Super Jamie said:

Nothing makes you feel powerful like taking out like 8 zombiemen with the SSG.


I once took out like 50 or more zombiemen with a single rocket, in a jokewad (first level of Mock 2: the speed of stupid, I think). And they all gibbed ;-)

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There's a map in Antichrist Doom where you enter a large room and there's a Cyberdemon with a heap of zombiemen clustered in front of him, facing away from you and probably deaf. First Cyb rocket and they all gib. It looks quite striking :)

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I really really hate pain elementals.

I hate how some times they congregate in the back of a room, get into fights with other monsters, and just spawn like 50 of the damned skulls before you can even reach them.

Annoying.

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sonic_13 said:
I hate how some times they congregate in the back of a room, get into fights with other monsters, and just spawn like 50 of the damned skulls before you can even reach them.

In vanilla WADs it's best to apply the standard limit on lost souls because such WADs were tested and balanced with that in mind.

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I like all monsters. If some of them were taken away, I would notice and miss them. Not that I want every monster appear on every level.

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Its got to be the reverent, I hate them so hard. Its probably one of the few monsters that still makes me panic a little, especially if I'm in some tight corridor and I've got to turn around and run back the other way.

Archies are probably one of my favorite monsters, since they are challenging and fun to fight, assuming you got some cover to duck behind.

Pain elementals suck too, luckily I don't see many of these guys since everyone seems to hate them enough to never include them into their wads.

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I think part of the problem is the power of the Doom 2 demons don't really fit with their other characteristics. Just looking at a Revenant, one could expect it to launch perhaps a medium-damage projectile akin to a stronger cacodemon fireball. But instead we get a homing rocket with perfect tracking of the player, and damage that ranges randomly from minor to colossal. Just as well, it may launch a homing rocket or it may launch a non-homing rocket. In any case, the firing animation for the Revenant is exactly the same no matter what comes out of its indecisive shoulder launchers. Their hit boxes are awkward to hit, as well.

Similarly, pain elementals look like a variation on a cacodemon, but their lost soul-spewing quickly spirals out of control if they are not immediately destroyed.

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Chaingunners always tick me off. No matter the distance, they always seem to be able to whittle down my health in about ten seconds, and it's especially bad if they're all the way across the map and still shooting at me - because then I have no idea where they are, no idea which direction I should be taking cover from, and by the time I've figured it out, either the chaingunner finally saps the last five health from me, or a random zombie finally gets the winning plink with his little pop gun.

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Reaper978 said:
In any case, the firing animation for the Revenant is exactly the same no matter what comes out of its indecisive shoulder launchers.

It's the same missile but an imperfection in the code makes about half of them lose their tracking ability. The animation of the monster is the same but the missiles aren't, as the tracking ones have a smoke trail.

Their hit boxes are awkward to hit, as well.

I wouldn't say the box is hard to hit, but the height of the sprite, although once you know that you just stop shooting at revenant heads seen across a low wall. Some others are indeed awkward to hit with the fist or chainsaw. The mancubus and the arachnotron, especially.

Similarly, pain elementals look like a variation on a cacodemon, but their lost soul-spewing quickly spirals out of control if they are not immediately destroyed.

A score lost souls shouldn't be such a big deal. They can be nasty if you only have a pistol or shotgun because then the rate of lost soul production can exceed the rate at which you kill them. With a chaingun you can easily stun them and with anything better you can kill them very fast.

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myk said:

A score lost souls shouldn't be such a big deal. They can be nasty if you only have a pistol or shotgun because then the rate of lost soul production can exceed the rate at which you kill them. With a chaingun you can easily stun them and with anything better you can kill them very fast.

Besides, lost souls love killing each other. Just kill that PE, run away and come back a minute or two later and there shouldn't many souls left.

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Mowing down masses of former humans with a chaingun is one of the few great delights of playing doom and one of the few strengths of the Doom engine.

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myk said:

A score lost souls shouldn't be such a big deal. They can be nasty if you only have a pistol or shotgun because then the rate of lost soul production can exceed the rate at which you kill them.


PEs mixed with tough monsters like Barons and Revenants that require heavy firepower to kill quickly, and you only have bullets, shells, and rockets. Plus, give some advantage to PEs such as great numbers (3 or 4 are enough) and cover. Ofc, in a closed room where you can't just run away ;-)

Play on the safe side, and you'll soon find yourself cornered. Try playing rough with the rockets, and most if not all will blow too close, no matter how careful you are (an exception is if you're playing on a source port with 100% manual aim and you can aim behind stuff).

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The doom monster I hate the most depends on where I encounter that monster and how many are there.

In wide open spaces (where there's not much cover) nothing is more annoying than an archvile - except two archviles! And in such areas, a large number of chaingunners is almost always painful.

In narrow corridors Baron of hell is dreadful.

In dark rooms, spectres and revenants usually makes my skin crawl.

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Mr. Chris said:

... a source port that removes the 20 lost soul limit in the map..

The limit is 21.

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aaglo said:

In narrow corridors Baron of hell is dreadful.

Nah, easy. The closer you get to them, the more angled their shots become. You just duck back and to the other side when they fire. The Baron (48 units) is wider than the player (32 units) so there will never be a passage a Baron fits into where this trick doesn't work, though it's probably more fun in a 64-wide corridor.

40oz (when his name was still JohnnyRancid) made a map called mlyp with this behaviour in it intentionally as a joke for this thread but it seems to have disappeared. I still have a copy of it floating around somewhere, it was actually quite fun :P

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Yeah i stopped hosting it. (because it's actualy an attachment to an old forum post, It's not actually my bandwith)

I still have it. I could host it again if necessary. I kinda wish it were more of a common practice to create witty jokes in for form of maps. I should probably contribute to it's popularity by doing that.

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