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Antroid

Am i too old for doom or something?

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Just kidding, i really am not old at all, but sometimes it feels like it. No matter what wad i play, i can't play more than, say, 20 minutes straight before getting bored, i never remember to save, and if i die i just quit for the moment.
Gameplay-wise, i lost all interest in what a wad can offer. It's either lazy walking around and shooting low-level monsters, being slightly caught off-guard by the everpresent chaingunner traps, or struggling through what some could call challenges, but it just feels tedious to me. Sudden ambushes or giant enemy hordes just annoy me most of the time, even though after a break i may find a challenge interesting for, like, 5 minutes.
Graphically, overdetail bothers me a lot, and huge empty rooms do (of course), and i've not seen a map that has just enough detail for a long time. Also i often notice a lot of texturing oddities and they put me off.
Music also rarely fits the mood of a map i'm trying to play, it's either some "konami music", or unfitting heavy metal, or just too generic...

What the hell is wrong with me? I thought i loved doom. I'm still making my wad, and even though now i begin to fear for it's potential fun factor, i think i'm doing a decent job and i certainly enjoy mapping a lot.
I'm not even looking for suggestions, for numerous reasons: i already had a thread with people suggesting wads to play for me, and i also have a lot of wads i've been wanting to beat for a long time, but i just can't make any progress, i beat around two or three levels and turn the game off, and then i either forget or something new comes out which i start instead. Taking a huge break from doom and playing other games or just nothing at all doesn't help.

So, if anyone has maybe been in such a situation, or just understands what's up, i'm desperate for help and advice. Basically, how does an 'old' doom fan start enjoying doom again?

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Tried that, the breaks just add to the time i can have fun really insignificantly, like one week break equals +5 minutes over the usual 20. :(

Sorry if this thread sounds stupid, but i just really don't like this tendency.

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I asked it in the first post. Maybe somebody had this kind of thing happening to them or something? And what do you mean by "done with it" - tired of doom forever? That can't be! ;_; (after all i did mention that i'm still mapping actively, even though the wad i'm making is my first serious work)

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I wouldn't even consider a week a real break.
I don't play Doom all the time. Sometimes, I spend month without playing it.

I also like the LucasArts adventures a lot.

And Boulder Dash on the C64. I coded some very appreciated tools for that, and still do.

Playing the same game all the time becomes boring. Even if it is a really good game.

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How much does your "doom period" usually last, if you can distinguish it? I mean the time during which you play doom a lot and have fun, until you start getting bored and take a long break.
I also have a lot of other things to do that i like, but for some reason i didn't get tired of Doom mapping after a week as i usually did before, so i want to take advantage of this to make some progress in my wad. I'm mapping for 1,5 months straight probably, which is a personal record. And it is only natural that when mapping, from time to time i want to play too, to gather some inspiration or just practice (to make my own levels not too easy)...

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You're probably just weird, like it says on the ENDOOM screen of DOOM II :p

I've been playing DOOM more or less regularly for years, and it's been fun pretty much consistently.

But anyway, if you don't enjoy it, then do something else... what's the problem?

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That's the thing, i do enjoy it, just for short periods of time :) But most importantly, as i said, i don't want to stop mapping while i seem to have endless inspiration, but mapping makes me want... to want to play? Or something like that. I know, it's probably hard to explain and understand. I've been noticing this for a long while too, like i became bored of mapping long ago, and haven't touched doom for a very long time since then, but then this inspiration wave comes and doesn't end.

I was/am also kinda expecting somebody to comment on single points eventually, like maybe there's somebody who just doesn't particularly like any custom music in wads, or plays just for gameplay, ignoring graphics, because no wad gets graphics right for him...

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You maybe just bored with the traditional gameplay aspects of it. Doom is heavily flexible, and can be manipulated to suit your gameplay needs. I took this approach to create my 21 map wad Motornerve. It stages the player in countless panic situations where most of the time surviving involves a combination of luck and precision while not being stunned by the extremity of the many monsters and little cover. All maps were intended to be completed from a pistol start, and the maps are extremely short so bothering to save your progress little less than a waste.

I understand what you mean about mapping making you want to play. Sometimes I visualize a great atmosphere to stick the player in, then I go ahead and start making it, but I barely nail down EXACTLY what I want, and sometimes what I want is so time consuming that I really wish the map would be done so I can play it already. To beat this, I've tried learning methods to get good looking maps done FAST, that way when I wish I were playing in a certain environment, I can create it quickly and not get bored of making it before it's finished.

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I'll go and play this now. That actually may be a great idea: i've been only playing "classic" wads, because i convinced myself i only like those very very long ago. Maybe i'm too stuck up with my principles.



...Boy is this thread gonna look dumb if that helps me already.

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Don't think you're weird, the same thing happens/is happening to me.

I wonder why I just download tons of wads, start many, and complete few. And sometimes when I'm playing, it just feels like a chore, and I want to get the wad done so I can start the next one.

I think it comes from that time in 2007 when I discovered that Doom had a TON of user-created content, and I needed to catch up playing it all. That gave me kind of a bad attitude toward playing WADs.

Another thing, I think I hate Doom 2 megawads. Those really seem like a chore, unless they are Doom 1-ish.

But currently, I'm playing through Espi's Back 2 Basics, and I love it. No annoyances here.

I also think it would be handy for the game to autosave every 2 minutes or so, so that I don't get mad at myself and quit because I didn't save.

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Yes, maybe you are too old for the Doom levels you're trying to enjoy. Rather try to map something, and use a capable port like ZDoom so you can actually change the game to your likes.

Or alternatively read a good book, go on youtube or see what other hobbies you have.

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Yeah, I have to admit I'm getting quite bored of Doom mapping/modding now too, maybe it's time for me to move on and get a life, heh.

Makes me wonder how long the Doom community will keep going, I'll give it 10 more years at the most, before it becomes too obscure and empty :(

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With all the newfags coming in constantly I don't think it will be an issue.

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I think it comes from that time in 2007 when I discovered that Doom had a TON of user-created content, and I needed to catch up playing it all. That gave me kind of a bad attitude toward playing WADs.


This sounds like a part of my problem too. I just suddenly got this urge to beat a lot of well-known wads, probably to learn from them, so that i can balance my maps better.

Yes, maybe you are too old for the Doom levels you're trying to enjoy. Rather try to map something, and use a capable port like ZDoom so you can actually change the game to your likes.

Or alternatively read a good book, go on youtube or see what other hobbies you have

I was kidding about old - i'm just 21 and i haven't even seriously played doom for that long. Until i got internet i only had SNES doom, and even with internet i only played a wad like twice a year before.
Also you make it sound like i have no hobbies. :) Make no mistake, i do! I even map for two more games, i have lots of good games i like, i watch letplays all the time, i read books, i hike, take photos, etc etc. And about doom mapping - i'm doing exactly that - mapping a zdoom wad having fun with custom items and monsters and such.

Yeah, I have to admit I'm getting quite bored of Doom mapping/modding now too, maybe it's time for me to move on and get a life, heh.

Well, i do have periods when i can't map for doom, i map for serious sam then. Usually. But i'm getting tired of playing while having very little experience in it AND considering myself a big doom fan. That's the strange thing.

With all the newfags coming in constantly I don't think it will be an issue.

I kind of hope (and believe) so.

Thanks for your responses guys, i know i probably wouldn't post in such a thread :D

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I've been playing Doom on and off since 1994 (age 24). I'm now 37 and still enjoy the game a lot, but don't care so much for super-difficult levels anymore. Actually I'm not sure I ever really cared for them, but now my patience is much less and I play those on ITYTD instead of HMP. First and foremost what attracted me to Doom in the first place was the incredible atmosphere of the game. I had previously seen Wolf3D but it left me cold. I did have a fascination with Hired Guns (Amiga 1200 version), which was very close to Doom in terms of atmosphere.

I doubt that Doom will fall into obscurity anytime soon. Consider how long roguelike games and Dungeons & Dragons (two of my other favorite passtimes) have been around and are still going strong almost 35-40 years later. Now you might say that today's D&D is very different from the original, and that would be a true statement, but there are still a significant number of folks who prefer older editions, and there's quite a bit of material being produced for them. Just check dragonsfoot.org or google "old-school renaissance" and you'll find thriving communities built around those old games. The reason for that is because the old editions bring something to the table that the d20 and 4e versions don't, and so it is with Doom and the lastest FPS.

I think the key is to figure out what exactly you like about Doom and spend your time on the WADs that focus on those qualities.

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Captain Toenail said:
I'll give it 10 more years at the most, before it becomes too obscure and empty

You'll find comments from ten years ago that said pretty much the same thing, if they weren't more pessimistic.

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If Doom's familiar gameplay and aesthetics have carved deep ruts in your brain and you get no satisfaction from letting yet another level roll through those channels then there's certainly nothing wrong with that. It just means that your brain is looking for some newer, more novel or more sophisticated form of stimulation. Take a break. If you still find yourself to be fascinated with the idea of Doom, even when absent from it, then come back and approach Doom in a new way. There are many different exercises in the complete Doom regimen, some of which you will find that you still interest in doing. Mapping is a good idea. It can train you in a huge number of creative fields, and the act of building a world is a healthy and pleasant exertion. If mapping makes you feel like you want to play, it may actually be best to remind yourself that playing levels leaves you unsatisfied and eschew that altogether. If you tire of mapping, you can train other creative skills by crafting music or art for other projects. You can train logical skills by scripting or coding. You can train leadership skills by organizing the efforts of others. Or, if you're sure that you want to regain interest in playing, try playing in new ways: play Doom for the sake of writing reviews for it, or starting playing multiplayer and try to get involved in competitive, strategic, team-based play, or try to perfect your play of certain levels and record it.

And if all else fails, you can just come here and talk.

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hex11

...Actually I'm not sure I ever really cared for them, but now my patience is much less and I play those on ITYTD instead of HMP. First and foremost what attracted me to Doom in the first place was the incredible atmosphere of the game...

The thing i liked about Doom initially (as a kid playing the SNES port) was just this, atmosphere. It was the most opressive, evil, and beautiful thing that side of a TV screen, and i loved it :D
Nowadays, even though i still claim to appreciate atmosphere in games and feel it when nobody does, i find myself feeling nothing when playing custom wads. The most atmospheric thing about custom doom levels was watching a playthrough of Deus Vult map02 (not said in a sarcastic way). I now see most of the wads as just pure entertainment, when almost nothing stands between me and the challenge, as opposed to a lot of crap found in newer games. But when i try a difficult level and die a bunch of times, i get annoyed and quit. After that i start remembering it as a fun challenge again, return to the game, die some more and quit again... I suppose some of you might have encountered such a situation, when you remember something (a game? a movie? anything) to be much better than it really was, and you see it only when you try it again. That's what is happening here i think, but it takes me much less time to forget what i just felt about playing wads and try once more.

I think the key is to figure out what exactly you like about Doom and spend your time on the WADs that focus on those qualities.

That is difficult, because almost none of them moved me. I just don't get that feeling i desire from doom, except for rare (and seemingly random) occasions.

Creaphis

a lot of good ideas

Thanks :D Even though most of that i already do, your post is yet another indication that this might be the right way to go.

I really appreciate the advice i get, thanks once again good people of doomworld %)

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Well, the sad truth of the matter is that the vast majority of modern wads are not atmospheric. The fact that you do not feel drawn into the Dooming experience is not your fault. While one of the strongest memories most of us share of the original Doom is its stunning atmosphere, levels modeled from that same design document cannot eternally astound us. Furthermore, the evolution of Doom's style has eroded the elements of level design that can charge a level with tension, with purpose. In the work of most modern mappers, the density of monster placement and of visual detail is very consistent within maps. Sizes of individual areas range from not-too-small to not-too-big. "Sector style," when viewed in a map editor, tends to be very consistent, very orthogonal, full of predictable light constructs and wall insets, etc. This runs counter to the goal of creating an atmospheric map, because what creates atmosphere is inconsistency. To create tension, disrupt the usual, predictable patterns of pacing. Build a calm, and then unleash the storm when the player truly does not expect it. To create atmosphere, cramp the player in a dark, dull, entirely unpleasant tunnel and then release him into a vast canyon, glittering with light. The first priority when crafting an area can be to include some unexpected aesthetic touch, or some sort of construct or machinery that "makes sense", instead of the gameplay which that area will ultimately accommodate. Instead of making maps akin to dull, smooth stones, worn by the passage of time, make maps that bristle with burrs and snags.

If what you want to play are atmospheric wads, perhaps the best thing you can do is to make some, to help those who are in the same boat, as it were. I think many of us wish for a more deeply atmospheric play experience, which explains how this got a Cacoward despite playing like garbage.

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This has actually been my goal with my wad: to try and recreate some atmosphere i'd love to feel in a doom level (that's also mainly the goal i pursue when mapping in general, be it for doom, serious sam or super mario world: create atmosphere, and then preferably make it interesting to play too). I really can't wait to finish the damn thing. That's why it's great that i don't seem to get tired of doom mapping for nearly two months. But if i don't start enjoying doom as a game again soon, the wad's probably gonna play like garbage too. (i'll check out that wad you linked and see what exactly playing like garbage is)

Edit: this wad was indeed atmospheric! It had some very neat details here and there too, and the beginning was actually a bit scary with looking into all these cells. The level also reminded me of might and magic and how i once wanted to make some m&m-like wad, but quickly abandoned the idea. I also liked how it played, it was my kind of hard.

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I don't even like Doom. I'm here because I'm lonely.

Okay, I'm kidding. Anyway, Antroid, I've felt the same way as you, and I'm sure many others here have, too. I think it is overwhelming to see all these projects people talk about you haven't played. Just remember that many people here have been here at least a decade. They didn't play all those wads in a day (unless you're myk, he plays 320x240 so he can run 47 games of Doom on his screen at once).

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Been there, done that. Psh, it's just a phase. Just don't play doom unless you really want to, and you will probably have fun. Making new challenges for yourself to beat each level is always fun to do.

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I kinda feel the same way - that's why I sometimes prefer to play deathmatch. 20 minutes can be more than enough excitement :D

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Okay i'm kinda relieved now :D It was also nice to learn that people might appreciate atmosphere in a wad if it's done right and overlook some other things.

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I lost all feeling of atmosphere in most Doom wads after PSX Doom's amazing atmosphere. Likely the classic sound effects and the music.

Anyway, I still like the game, because I take longer breaks than most, I break it out once or twice a YEAR, play like mad, burn out, then play other things. I tend to play things I love endlessly with limited breaks though.

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I may go without Doom for a month or so at time, but it always comes back ;-)

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It's probably been over a month since I last played Doom. I was running it the other day (when changing some settings in DOSBox and making sure vanilla Doom still looked half decent), but I haven't actually played it...

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Antroid said:

This sounds like a part of my problem too. I just suddenly got this urge to beat a lot of well-known wads, probably to learn from them, so that i can balance my maps better.


Most of the well-known wads are classic-style with nothing new except graphics etc....maybe what you need is to try some of the ZDoom wads that change the gameplay too (they sometimes have ambient sounds in to change the atmosphere as well).

Antroid was the recipient of:
If Doom's familiar gameplay and aesthetics have carved deep ruts in your brain and you get no satisfaction from letting yet another level roll through those channels then there's certainly nothing wrong with that. It just means that your brain is looking for some newer, more novel or more sophisticated form of stimulation.


Other Doom-engine games like Heretic, Hexen or Strife might also work here (if you haven't played them yet) along with the more radical ZDoom wads (ones that don't feel fully Doom-like but don't feel like they've changed into another game altogether).

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