Halo 3 : ODST Launches Tuesday

[Technician]

Blargharghargh said:

Nonsense.

You really need to have an out-of-body experiences and some how re-read your post in another perspective.

[Craigs]

Blargharghargh said:

Again, they're gimmick fights (as far as the Oracle and the Duke bosses). Saying that the spider mastermind or cyber demon are bosses is ridiculous. Sure, they're tough monsters, but not bosses by any means. That's like saying the baron at the end of E1 is a boss, and that's just plain stupid. A boss is a unique monster, who requires specific conditions be met for their destruction, be it as simple as HP < 0

In the original Doom the spider mastermind and cyber demon were unique monsters. With the exception of E2M8, the only other place I recall running into the cyberdemon was in E3M9, which was a secret map, and with the exception of E4 in the Ultimate Doom, you only ran into the spider mastermind once. That doesn't qualify as a unique monster?

[Graf Zahl]

Blargharghargh said:

Again, they're gimmick fights (as far as the Oracle and the Duke bosses). Saying that the spider mastermind or cyber demon are bosses is ridiculous. Sure, they're tough monsters, but not bosses by any means. That's like saying the baron at the end of E1 is a boss, and that's just plain stupid.

Think 1993, not 2009. Today fighting a baron is a piece of cake and most Doomers have no problems with Cyberdemons either.

But back in 1993 they were a completely different story. You can't judge a game with 16 years of hindsight.

That said, the Spider was indeed lame after what came before. Probably the only boss in any game I ever played which I managed to finish off without dying at least once first.

[Sporku]

The only bosses I've ever seen in a "first person shooter" that actually worked at all were the bosses from the Metroid Prime series. Though that's not much of a traditional FPS series to begin with.

[Patrick]

I dont know what you guys are talking about. Halo 2 multiplayer was excellent. Halo 1 Singleplayer was awesome. Halo 3 Sucked. Get over the fact that they don't make games like they used to, Halo 1 and Halo 2 are awesome. and I dont even have an xbox.

[TheDarkArchon]

kristus said:

The reason it's so popular was that Halo was the first generic FPS for consoles that was actually playable.

And even that isn't true since TimeSplitters did that before Halo did.

[Mr. Freeze]

avery1555 said:

the game relies heavily on things like stealth.

Oh JOY.

And by joy, I mean shit. Name me one first-person game where stealth was a good idea.

...

You can't. It never was. Fuck Bungie.

avery1555 said:

The reason it's so popular was that Halo was the first generic FPS for consoles that was actually playable.

Perfect Dark and Goldeneye 007 (although PD moreso) kick the absolute shit out of Halo.

[Patrick]

Mr. Freeze said:

And by joy, I mean shit. Name me one first-person game where stealth was a good idea.

...

You can't. It never was. Fuck Bungie.

Play Far Cry. It's my all time favorite modern FPS, and its one of the best stealth games I've ever played.

[Jodwin]

Patrick said:

Far Cry.

Sucks.

[Reisal]

Far Cry was an awesome game, tho it did get silly halfway through the game with the super soldiers showing up and killing both the mercs and other opposition.

[Mr. Freeze]

Far Cry was awesome.

Far Cry 2 sucked.

[Craigs]

Mr. Freeze said:

Oh JOY.

And by joy, I mean shit. Name me one first-person game where stealth was a good idea.

The Thief series.

[Sharessa]

Deus Ex.

[Belial]

Someone needs to make another Alien Breed 3D.

[wildweasel]

Patrick said:

Play Far Cry. It's my all time favorite modern FPS, and its one of the best stealth games I've ever played.

Actually, Far Cry is about the least fun I've ever had being stealthy, because apparently either Jack Carver is too visible (red Hawaiian shirt?!) or the mercs have the sight of eagles - I was never able to hide effectively in this game, even when the "visibility meter" was at absolute minimum, a passing guard would still be able to see me and shoot me ACCURATELY through about 20 feet worth of bushes and trees. Visual cover, my ass.

Far Cry 2 wasn't much better at it, despite being made by a completely different company. The camo suit upgrade that you have to spend all of 45 diamonds for (probably the most expensive item in the game) does diddly-squat for helping you sneak into places. The only time I ever killed anyone without being detected was with the dart rifle from a VERY far away ledge - and even then, the bastards were still able to pick out my location perfectly from there.

All this said, though, stealth games aren't impossible to make. The Thief games and Deus Ex handled stealth wonderfully.

[AveryMaurice]

Mr. Freeze said:

Perfect Dark and Goldeneye 007 (although PD moreso) kick the absolute shit out of Halo.

The second thing you quoted from me I never said. O.o

That quote is actually from Kristus.

[Enjay]

Craigs said:

The Thief series.

Quoted because it is worth repeating. :)

[Kaiser]

Wow, look at all these fanboys

[Mr. Freeze]

avery1555 said:

The second thing you quoted from me I never said. O.o

That quote is actually from Kristus.

Whoops. Forgot to check when I was copying the Quote code.

Regardless, I still stand behind what I said.

[Visplane Overflow]

Here are some games that are either more 'revolutionary' than Halo 3 is or could be, using the fanboy's loose interpretation of the word, or just games that are more unique than Halo:

Hexen - Inventory system
Goldeneye - that dual-wielding thing many many years before Halo
Sniper Elite - Realistic rifle ballistics, bullets obey gravity and penetrate objects, stealth encouraged etc
Thief - first person stealth series, enemies can hear you, see you, call for backup and the player character is afforded extra mobility compared to other FPS games (ie, mantling over low walls)
Operation Flashpoint - Tactical shooter with an emphasis on AI squad control, you can use vehicles
Alien Versus Predator 1 or 2 - Sci-fi horror shooter, had a dynamically introduced soundtrack to raise tension during chase scenes and fights
Battlefield series - Not much needs to be said.
Star Wars Jedi Knight series - Featured lots of light saber fights between opponents as well as generic cannon fodder as well as containing puzzle sequences where you'd need to use the force to make a path to the exit, etc
Hitman series - This one is obvious.
Crysis - Halo fanboys may appreciate this solely for the pretty graphics (way to go Generation ADD!)
Red Orchestra - Realism shooter emphasising realistic combat in WW2
Call of Duty Here because the last two games have had plots that were far superior to Halo's.

Alright, so all of these games have something that sets them apart from mainstream shooters. This is not an exhaustive list, just an example to illustrate how bland and overdone Halo should seem to most normal human beings.

Oh and thank you Technician for telling Blargh to shut the fuck up more eloquently than I could have. Cheers.

EDIT: There are a quite a few devout followers of the Guide here. Few things are quite as retarded as overusing the following : 'lol', 'win', 'epic' and 'fail'.
http://www.guidenet.net/resources/wanker.html

[Mattfrie1]

Blargharghargh said:

Saying that the spider mastermind or cyber demon are bosses is ridiculous. Sure, they're tough monsters, but not bosses by any means. That's like saying the baron at the end of E1 is a boss, and that's just plain stupid.

First off, there are 2 Baron's at the end of episode 1. They are considered to be the bosses of episode one. You wouldn't want to be thrown the games hardest boss as soon as you start it would you? Your logic on video game bosses isn't really getting through to me here.

On the Cybie/Mastermind comment, they are the strongest monsters in the game, so they can be considered bosses. Just because a boss character is like a regular enemy doesn't mean that it's any easier to fight.

Blargharghargh said:

A boss is a unique monster, who requires specific conditions be met for their destruction, be it as simple as HP < 0, or as "complex" as deal X damage during this vulnerable phase.

Think of it this way, Doom is a 16 year old game. They didn't really have the technology then to make an overtly complex boss. Besides, I like the Cybie's "Shoot at it until it dies" strategy. You don't have to turn your mind inside out on thinking of a way to kill it, and you can use it in more situations than any other video game boss that comes to my mind.

On another note, doesn't any one else find it funny how there are very few comments on the new Halo game?

[Nems]

Mattfrie1 said:

On another note, doesn't any one else find it funny how there are very few comments on the new Halo game?

If by "funny" you mean "refreshing", then yes. (;

[DuckReconMajor]

Blargharghargh said:

A boss is a unique monster, who requires specific conditions be met for their destruction, be it as simple as HP < 0, or as "complex" as deal X damage during this vulnerable phase.

I want to see games step away from this.

[caco_killer]

Halo 3's single player campaign was the only one in the series that I really enjoyed, so I would like to get this game when I can.

ODST also comes with a second disc that has the complete Halo 3 Multiplayer game, including all the DLC map packs. I could have bought those map packs separately through the Xbox Live Market Place, but I'd rather have them on a disc.

[ArmouredBlood]

DuckReconMajor said:

I want to see games step away from this.

To where? I'm not really sure how else you can beat a boss, unless it's one of those competitive point-based games ... just wondering what you think on it.

[DuckReconMajor]

You're right. Pretty much I was playing Quake for the first time and I was upset about the first boss. There's nothing wrong with beating bosses in special ways. Thinking back on the great bosses in the games I've played, many of them were defeated in special ways. But they were a constant struggle. Sometimes it seems like people make the method to kill the boss simple just because it's a boss. That's what I'm against. But that's hardly a new position.

[Use]

Blargharghargh said:

That's like saying the baron at the end of E1 is a boss, and that's just plain stupid. A boss is a unique monster, who requires specific conditions be met for their destruction, be it as simple as HP < 0, or as "complex" as deal X damage during this vulnerable phase...

Gosh, you're right, Doom is in clear violation of the Grand Law of Video Games which clearly states all and any 'boss' must be some contrived mechanism which almost always causes more annoyance than challenge. Here's the reality, the bosses are whatever the designers of the game say they are. Any idiot can play Doom and see that the unique monsters you fight at the end of each episode are a 'boss'. If that's too hard for you to figure out, get into a hobby less complicated, like seeing how many times you can smash your head into a wall.

[Craigs]

I got the game and so far I'm liking it. It's a pretty big improvement over Halo 3. Stealth really isn't all that necessary in the game. It can be pretty useful when you really want to avoid a fight with a rather large squad or a couple of hunters. You don't really play as any particular ODST soldier. The game does a fairly good job of making you feel like one of the grunts, but there are a few things that kinda ruin it, specifically being able to flip a warthog without any trouble at all and being able to rip a mounted gun off its stand and being able to use it without any trouble at all.

[Sharessa]

Mattfrie1 said:

Think of it this way, Doom is a 16 year old game. They didn't really have the technology then to make an overtly complex boss. Besides, I like the Cybie's "Shoot at it until it dies" strategy. You don't have to turn your mind inside out on thinking of a way to kill it, and you can use it in more situations than any other video game boss that comes to my mind.

The cybie vs. mastermind fight on Gotcha! was one of the greatest things ever when I first saw it.

[leileilol]

Visplane Overflow said:

Hexen - Inventory system

Heretic, and even Lethal Tender.

Visplane Overflow said:

Battlefield series - Not much needs to be said.

Lots of players and vehicles playing online? That innovation goes to Starsiege Tribes.

That crappy shooter "XS" from 1996 does draw a lot of similarities with Halo.

- Two guns only
- Ammo counter on the (sprite!) guns
- Off hand throwable grenades
- Blocky characters with specular shading
- In-game disembodied female hud voice ( a british Cortana that states the obvious in the dullest cyberpunk brit cybgirl way ever)
- Blue transparent hud
- "Shield" system