The Gun thread

[Mr. Freeze]

avery1555 said:

You WONT get attacked if no one has guns. Mainly by the idiots that think its cool.

You could not be more wrong if you tried. Criminals will always have guns. That's WHY they are criminals. When you ban guns, you are taking it out of the hands of people who need them and don't want to get hurt.

avery1555 said:

And if someone breaks into your house suddenly, and tries to kill you, you REALLY think you have enough time to make a dash to your gun. Unless you have it on your lap 24/7 I dont see the use.

If you keep your gun far away from you while sleeping, you are a moron. Put it in a place you can reach almost instantly, but not where anyone else can grab it.

[Snarboo]

If you're buying the Five Seven for novelty, that's okay, but keep in mind that the ammo will be expensive. I recommend a good 9mm or even a .45 ACP for your first pistol. Ammo is readily available and cheap and both have good stopping power, plus there are about a billion kinds of pistols in each caliber.

[myk]

Dr. Zin said:
I don't own an FN produced Hi-Power, but as I listed above I do have an FM (Argentine licensed) HP.

Fabricaciones Militares, the national defense industry.

[AveryMaurice]

Mr. Freeze said:

If you keep your gun far away from you while sleeping, you are a moron. Put it in a place you can reach almost instantly, but not where anyone else can grab it.

LOL wut.

You keep your gun right next to your alarm, on a nightstand? Not accesible to others? In a safe? Doesnt seem easily accesible to me. No wonder you community needs weapons to keep safe...

We have an extremely low crime rate and have absolutly no weapons.

[Craigs]

Mr. Freeze said:

You could not be more wrong if you tried. Criminals will always have guns. That's WHY they are criminals. When you ban guns, you are taking it out of the hands of people who need them and don't want to get hurt.

Might be worth it if we're taking them away from paranoid nut jobs who are constantly afraid of being attacked. In my opinion, they're just as dangerous as the criminals themselves.

[Naked Snake]

Craigs said:

Might be worth it if we're taking them away from paranoid nut jobs who are constantly afraid of being attacked. In my opinion, they're just as dangerous as the criminals themselves.

This mindset has always been dangerous, despite the fact that almost all of the USA has become "shall issue" when it comes to concealed handgun carrying and thus have seen a reduction in crime. I'd say it's fair to say that almost all people who conceal carry are very nice, reasonable, intelligent human beings that are not "paranoid nut jobs" that are "constantly afraid". They do, however, wake up in the morning and acknowledge that the world is generally not so predicable.

Somewhere out there, perhaps nearby, is a bad man or woman. They may not every encounter you, they may see you tomorrow, perhaps while you read this sentence they steal your car. Who knows? That's why they strap on a gun. That's also why they make sure they have working smoke detectors and fire extinguishers, a well-stocked home First Aid kit, they make sure they can see when the power goes out and all that good stuff. They're good folk, they abide the law as best as they can. I advise you to take a look at some of the pro-gun posters by Oleg Volk. Yes, he's a tad weird, but I do agree with him, especially on supressors and the like.

Mr. Freeze, what state are you in where you can't own a Mossberg 590? I live in New York state (not NYC), so I feel your hurt when it comes to those silly-ass Unconstitutional pistol permits (haven't got one myself, but I've got plenty of long guns, don't need a permit for that), but even in NY with their pistol permit shit and their equally illegal "comsetic feautre ban" *ahem* I mean "assault weapons ban", you can own a pump-action shotgun with all sorts of crazy shit on it all day long as long as it's not a semi-auto.

FN Five-Sevens are neat in theory, but I wouldn't CCW one. I'd get one for owning and keeping around the house, sure, but for daily carry, first off, you're gonna have to explain your gun in front of a grand jury if you use it. A Five-Seven sure don't look nice, it holds 20 or 30 cartridges in states that aren't crapsucks and shoots a round touted to destroy body armor. Have fun with that. Secondly, the ammo is expensive as a bastard. Anything you carry, you want the option of reloading even if you only plan on shooting steel-cased ammo.

The Mossberg 590 is essentially a Mossberg 500 made to adhere to US Armed Forces requirements in a service shotgun. It's a damned rugged, reliable bastard and it's easy to service by the end-user (you). Can't go wrong with either a Mossberg or a Remington, they're both solid and proven workhorses.

Oh, and while we're showing off guns, if some of you recall the new AK I got a bit back, well, it too got some surgery and it too no longer looks like a hunting rifle (yes, this rifle is 100% legal in my state and is semi-automatic only. And no, it doesn't have to be registered or licensed.)



It's the one with green furniture.

[ReFracture]

Graf Zahl said:

I feel much safer where I am because gun ownership is so heavily restricted. Less guns means less idiots owning guns.

Where 'nobody' has guns, I can see that being nice. I'm glad the US still allows them.. there are so many that they could never be banned, and even if they did, criminals can still get them almost effortlessly.
(and to those that would disagree: Look at Weed, Cocaine, or just about any other illegal drug. They are banned, but so easy to get that it's a fucking joke.)

Then these criminals will have no fear as they break into somebody's house knowing full well they most likely don't have one, because, after all, if they did and defended them selves, they to get fucked by the system.

Snarboo said:

If you're buying the Five Seven for novelty, that's okay, but keep in mind that the ammo will be expensive. I recommend a good 9mm or even a .45 ACP for your first pistol. Ammo is readily available and cheap and both have good stopping power, plus there are about a billion kinds of pistols in each caliber.

Personally, I'd like to get either a Glock 17 or Glock 19. I'd like to hold both of them before deciding, since the 19 might be a bit small for my hands.

Also, my dad owns these. I wanna go shoot them sometime.



.38 Special and Model 586 S&W .357.

[ReFracture]

avery1555 said:

Its one thing to have the gun while being attacked, its another thing to have the balls to pull the trigger, good luck with your "self defense".

If you feel you can make a generalization about every single person in the world who owns a gun for this purpose, then you are incredibly ignorant.

Edit: Apologize for the double post.

[Mr. Freeze]

You can't support drug legalization and suddenly turn around to say "guns cause crime".

[AveryMaurice]

Mr. Freeze said:

You can't support drug legalization and suddenly turn around to say "guns cause crime".

Drug legalization would REDUCE crime. Drugs such as marijuna are less harmful them tobacco, and people will still do drugs even if it was illegal. Legalizing drug use will reduce crimes simply because people will not take part in illegal activities to obtain or sell drugs, since they could access the resource legally.

[Bank]

Guns have taken all the challenge out of killing someone.

[Sharessa]

What's crazy is that you don't need a permit to own a bow, but it's just as easy to kill someone with one. I totally need to get one someday.

[ReFracture]

Danarchy said:

What's crazy is that you don't need a permit to own a bow, but it's just as easy to kill someone with one. I totally need to get one someday.

Any idiot can pull a trigger. Doesn't matter how stupid, weak, or unskilled you are (provided you aren't basically a vegetable.)

I dare say it would take just a little bit more skill (therefore not as easy) to kill somebody with a bow & arrow over a handgun.

[DuckReconMajor]

Danarchy said:

What's crazy is that you don't need a permit to own a bow, but it's just as easy to kill someone with one. I totally need to get one someday.

Can't slip a bow in your pocket. Not to mention you can't just whip out a bow and shoot someone dead on the spot like you can a gun. Even if you could, I'm not quite sure it would be "just as easy". I mean, why wouldn't we be using bows in modern war then (not counting the few crossbows still in service).

[Quasar]

[Starke Von Oben]

From what I can see as a non-American, the main thrust of the American pro-gun ownership argument is to arm oneself to defend against the threat of governmental tyranny or the criminals who also have guns.

Is that so?

Also I must point out that the examples of "dictators" who prohibited gun ownership presided over societies where gun ownership never was the norm historically anyway.

[Jodwin]

Nomad said:

It's culture that breeds violence, not access to guns.

True, the whole notion of "we don't have crime because we don't have guns" is a joke. If someone really, really wants to have guns (often for criminal purposes) they'll find a way to get their guns.

But I still think the concept of "home defense" is a joke. You'd be much better off (and the future generations would be happy for it) if instead of gathering guns for "defense" you'd actually try to make your culture less violent. Instead of fighting crime you should be looking at the reasons you're having so much crime that you need "defense" in the first place.

[Eponasoft]

Jodwin said:

True, the whole notion of "we don't have crime because we don't have guns" is a joke. If someone really, really wants to have guns (often for criminal purposes) they'll find a way to get their guns.

But I still think the concept of "home defense" is a joke. You'd be much better off (and the future generations would be happy for it) if instead of gathering guns for "defense" you'd actually try to make your culture less violent. Instead of fighting crime you should be looking at the reasons you're having so much crime that you need "defense" in the first place.

I agree with everything said here, though trying to reduce a violent culture is somewhat of a pipe dream. Does anyone remember the movie "Spies Like Us"? The General who was running WOMP made a very interesting statement: "History demonstrates conclusively that naive wishing for peace is the surest way to encourage an aggressor" or something along those lines.

[Starke Von Oben]

avery1555 said:

Drug legalization would REDUCE crime. Drugs such as marijuna are less harmful them tobacco, and people will still do drugs even if it was illegal. Legalizing drug use will reduce crimes simply because people will not take part in illegal activities to obtain or sell drugs, since they could access the resource legally.

Only if certain drugs were legalized. Consider the amount of crime that's committed due to alcohol abuse, then consider what it would be like if cocaine became legal.

[Technician]

Coke doesn't turn you into a raving lunatic.

[Starke Von Oben]

Technician said:

Coke doesn't turn you into a raving lunatic.

I lol'd

[ReFracture]

Jodwin said:

But I still think the concept of "home defense" is a joke.

I'm sorry, but if you have a problem with me defending myself should somebody invade my home, you can go fuck yourself.

Part of why home invasion isn't something that happens a LOT, is because criminals fear what that home owner might do in a country with the right to have firearms.

Take away my home defense, and pull out the fucking red carp for them why don't you. After all, defending my life and the lives those most important to me is such a 'joke' to you. Asshole.

[Starke Von Oben]

Mike.Reiner said:

I'm sorry, but if you have a problem with me defending myself should somebody invade my home, you can go fuck yourself.

Part of why home invasion isn't something that happens a LOT, is because criminals fear what that home owner might do in a country with the right to have firearms.

Take away my home defense, and pull out the fucking red carp for them why don't you. After all, defending my life and the lives those most important to me is such a 'joke' to you. Asshole.

What makes you think you've got anything worth stealing anyway?

[40oz]

avery1555 said:

Drug legalization would REDUCE crime.

Legalizing crime would reduce crime too.

[Belial]

Naked Snake said:

Somewhere out there, perhaps nearby, is a bad man or woman. They may not every encounter you, they may see you tomorrow, perhaps while you read this sentence they steal your car. Who knows?

I do. I can tell you it's a woman. I even know her name.

It's paranoia.

[trooper077]

hmmmmmmmmm if I could own a gun legally in my country it would probably be these badasses

http://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/img/user/24/35/5782435/6.jpg
Gotta love the SOCOM

http://acpupdates.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/famas.jpg

And the FAMAS

http://kozel1.bloguje.cz/deagle.JPG Kill em' with style

[Technician]

Belial said:

I do. I can tell you it's a woman. I even know her name.

It's paranoia.

That's class, man.

[Naked Snake]

Jodwin said:

True, the whole notion of "we don't have crime because we don't have guns" is a joke. If someone really, really wants to have guns (often for criminal purposes) they'll find a way to get their guns.

But I still think the concept of "home defense" is a joke. You'd be much better off (and the future generations would be happy for it) if instead of gathering guns for "defense" you'd actually try to make your culture less violent. Instead of fighting crime you should be looking at the reasons you're having so much crime that you need "defense" in the first place.

Yeah....about that. A very close friend (we call call home-owner) of mine had a man enter his home in the middle of the night. He has two daughters and a son. The man, who was angry at the home-owner for dating the intruder's ex-girlfriend, made threats despite the home-owner telling him that he had a gun and just wanted the guy to get the fuck out. The man continued his threats and the home-owner shot him dead. This is in a town in the middle of nowhere, with about 3,000 people. It was the first self-defense shooting in the town since 1893 (no joke). Regardless, what if the home-owner had no weapon? Who's to say that the intruder, who did personally know the home-owner, would have stopped at killing him? Like I said, the man had two teenage daughters...I'm pretty damn sure I'd have shot that guy too, if I had kids.

I think you're just as dangerous as a criminal intent on killing me for wanting guns out of MY hands because "home defense is a joke." Of course, I combat people like you with words, which can be lethal weapons in their own right.

I agree we need to look at the reason that crime is so prevalent in our society, yes, but banning or heavily restricting guns will solve nothing other than to make it harder for me to protect me and mine.

You also might want to note that if you remove "gun crime" as the sole indicator of what country is horrible, you might see that in all other aspects, European countries tend to have much higher crime than the United States when it comes to say, assault, sexual assault, armed robbery (don't need a gun to steal a wallet or a car), carjacking...wonder why?

[LexiMax]

Naked Snake said:

Yeah....about that. A very close friend (we call call home-owner) of mine had a man enter his home in the middle of the night. He has two daughters and a son. The man, who was angry at the home-owner for dating the intruder's ex-girlfriend, made threats despite the home-owner telling him that he had a gun and just wanted the guy to get the fuck out. The man continued his threats and the home-owner shot him dead. This is in a town in the middle of nowhere, with about 3,000 people. It was the first self-defense shooting in the town since 1893 (no joke). Regardless, what if the home-owner had no weapon? Who's to say that the intruder, who did personally know the home-owner, would have stopped at killing him? Like I said, the man had two teenage daughters...I'm pretty damn sure I'd have shot that guy too, if I had kids.

It's the Super Anecdotal Evidence Bros. coming to a Nintendo near you!

I think you're just as dangerous as a criminal intent on killing me for wanting guns out of MY hands because "home defense is a joke." Of course, I combat people like you with words, which can be lethal weapons in their own right.

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

You also might want to note that if you remove "gun crime" as the sole indicator of what country is horrible, you might see that in all other aspects, European countries tend to have much higher crime than the United States when it comes to say, assault, sexual assault, armed robbery (don't need a gun to steal a wallet or a car), carjacking...wonder why?

cool, unsourced statistics

[Butts]

Gun legalization doesn't change anything. Drug legalization changes a lot though. Pushers are very sketchy people who want nothing but money, are very violent, don't care about other people, and push drugs (obviously). They often have filthy drugs with dangerous substances laced into the drugs. With legalization of drugs, pushers will be almost eliminated, drugs will be safer, people would have a correct education of the drugs, and there will be lots of economic benefit. Of course, there are always downsides. The dangerous drugs, like cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine would be legal too, and that would cause much destruction. But the upsides like cannabis, psilocybin mushrooms, and LSD would outweigh the negatives. I'm also sure there would be more driving accidents, though... like people driving off of cliffs or up mountains, or in the ocean because they just HAD to follow that dragon that they'll never catch.