IBM and the Verichip - The Fourth Reich?

[Kirby]

I'm not one who's big on conspiracies and such (and this is really only orderline, almost all the info in here is 100% real) but it throws into perspective the kind of future we might face. Even more, say it becomes globalized and most of the general population has one. If another terrorist attack were to happen somewhere and you don't have a chip in your arm what might happen?

[Quasar]

Some ancient dude said:

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

WoooOoOoOOOOoooo!

But seriously, there is no way in hell anybody's putting that thing into me.

[Snarboo]

You could argue that the "number of the beast" already exists in the form of Social Security #'s and credit cards. Cash still exists, but many people use credit and debit in its place. There are probably people who never access their bank account and whose net worth is purely based on credit lying somewhere in a bank.

This kind of tech sounds scary, but it's hard not to when directly compared to Nazi concentration camps. The thing I'm wondering is: why does this need to be implanted? You could just as easily tape it on or wear the chip on a necklace or bracelet. And what happens if you get into an accident and the chip is smashed? They obviously have to have a way to duplicate these things should anything go wrong.

[Georgef551]

Kirby said:
[BI'm not one who's big on conspiracies and such (and this is really only orderline, almost all the info in here is 100% real) but it throws into perspective the kind of future we might face. Even more, say it becomes globalized and most of the general population has one. If another terrorist attack were to happen somewhere and you don't have a chip in your arm what might happen? [/B]

That would be the "Fifth Reich" for IBM.
Obama already claimed Fourth.

[Dr. Zin]

Georgef551 said:

That would be the "Fifth Reich" for IBM.
Obama already claimed Fourth.

I CALL THE SIXTH!

[Nomad]

Quit being such a fucking racist, REoL.

[Snarboo]

Georgef551 said:

That would be the "Fifth Reich" for IBM.
Obama already claimed Fourth.

The concept of the "Reich" as envisioned by the Nazis was based on previous German empires and was purely propaganda. By stating that any future group, government or organization is the next "Reich" you are legitimizing the Nazis view of history.

In other words: you're doing it wrong. There are plenty of words that perfectly describe what IBM is doing, "stupid" being one of them. Of course I wouldn't expect the mighty King Reol to bother with facts or history. :p

[Technician]

Timeline.

[myk]

Yeah, timeline, even Hitler knew about this!

[pritch]

If someone ever does try to have me chipped, they gonna meet my friend pain.

I'll know the time has come to cross to the other side then.

[Technician]

What other side?

[fraggle]

Georgef551 said:

That would be the "Fifth Reich" for IBM.
Obama already claimed Fourth.

Your casual comparison to the Nazi regime, a brutal dictatorship responsible for the murder and genocide of millions, demeans and belittles the horror and magnitude of the crimes it committed. To be quite frank, you should be disgusted and ashamed. Next time you decide to drag up Nazi Germany as a straw man for your petty political views, how about you shut the fuck up and show some respect for the dead instead?

[Nightmare Doom]

I thought this shit has already been debunked.

Like I said before, conspriacy theories are nothing more than false speculations wrapped around a single truth that is taken out context via irrational fear mongering. Not to mention that alot of Conspiracy Theorists have agendas as well (whether being a Ayn Randite society, white homogeneous society, a christian theocracy/theodemocracy, etc).

[SuperSlammer2]

fraggle said:

Your casual comparison to the Nazi regime, a brutal dictatorship responsible for the murder and genocide of millions, demeans and belittles the horror and magnitude of the crimes it committed. To be quite frank, you should be disgusted and ashamed. Next time you decide to drag up Nazi Germany as a straw man for your petty political views, how about you shut the fuck up and show some respect for the dead instead?

he was just making an comparison, geez...

[DooMAD]

I'd still say there's cause for concern over the technology. It's not difficult to use RFID to acquire private information it in ways that weren't originally intended.

SuperSlammer2 said:

he was just making an comparison, geez...

He makes a few too many stupid comparisons without thinking it through. It gets old pretty quick.

[Starke Von Oben]

Snarboo said:

The concept of the "Reich" as envisioned by the Nazis was based on previous German empires and was purely propaganda. By stating that any future group, government or organization is the next "Reich" you are legitimizing the Nazis view of history.

em·pire
n.

1.a. A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority.

b. The territory included in such a unit.

If history serves me correct, didn't Nazi Germany conquer and annex a number of countries in it's brief existence? Does that not constitute an Empire or Reich?


Are you trying to re-claim the word Reich from the Nazis or something?

In other words: you're doing it wrong. There are plenty of words that perfectly describe what IBM is doing, "stupid" being one of them. Of course I wouldn't expect the mighty King Reol to bother with facts or history. :p

So sayeth the kettle to the pot...

[Nomad]

Arguing semantics and arguing historical fact are not the same thing.

[Snarboo]

I was arguing the term "Reich" as used by the Nazis, not the actual definition. The third Reich as used by the Nazis referred to Nazi Germany, while the first and second Reich referred to the Holy Roman Empire and the previous German monarchy respectively. The term was used as propaganda and to legitimize the Nazis place in Germany.

Anytime someone uses "the fourth Reich" they are using the Nazi definition of the term, hence why it gives credence to the Nazi view of history. It's also a great way of knowing when to stop listening to someone as it is technically incorrect and reactionary. Neither Obama nor IBM are the next great German empire or comparable to the Nazis.

[Starke Von Oben]

Snarboo said:

I was arguing the term "Reich" as used by the Nazis, not the actual definition. The third Reich as used by the Nazis referred to Nazi Germany, while the first and second Reich referred to the Holy Roman Empire and the previous German monarchy respectively. The term was used as propaganda and to legitimize the Nazis place in Germany.

Anytime someone uses "the fourth Reich" they are using the Nazi definition of the term, hence why it gives credence to the Nazi view of history. It's also a great way of knowing when to stop listening to someone as it is technically incorrect and reactionary. Neither Obama nor IBM are the next great German empire or comparable to the Nazis.

What a load of bollocks.

[Technician]

Pretty factual to me.

[Starke Von Oben]

...gives credence to the Nazi view of history...

Did someone just let off an intellectual wet fart?

[Sharessa]

Oh noes, census!

Yes, god forbid a government know the population of the country they run or the general trends within it.

Showered with a medal...

I don't think you understand the definition of the word "showered".

IBM was part of the Nazi industrial complex!

As was Krupps, Siemens, Messerschmidt, Volkswagen, etc. Big whoop.

Slowly zooming white-on-black text.
Zzzzzzzzz...

"People worry about not being able to remove them."

It's called a razor blade and rubbing alcohol.

That being said, I wouldn't let anyone implant one of those in me. Still, that video is stupidly alarmist.

Georgef551 said:

That would be the "Fifth Reich" for IBM.
Obama already claimed Fourth.

Nightmare Doom said:

I thought this shit has already been debunked.

Like I said before, conspriacy theories are nothing more than false speculations wrapped around a single truth that is taken out context via irrational fear mongering. Not to mention that alot of Conspiracy Theorists have agendas as well (whether being a Ayn Randite society, white homogeneous society, a christian theocracy/theodemocracy, etc).

Little surprised to hear that coming from you. Did the van finally come by your house then? Anyway, I totally agree.

Snarboo said:

I was arguing the term "Reich" as used by the Nazis, not the actual definition. The third Reich as used by the Nazis referred to Nazi Germany, while the first and second Reich referred to the Holy Roman Empire and the previous German monarchy respectively. The term was used as propaganda and to legitimize the Nazis place in Germany.

Anytime someone uses "the fourth Reich" they are using the Nazi definition of the term, hence why it gives credence to the Nazi view of history. It's also a great way of knowing when to stop listening to someone as it is technically incorrect and reactionary. Neither Obama nor IBM are the next great German empire or comparable to the Nazis.

Pretty much true. Applying the term "reich" to anything outside of German government or Nazi politics is dumb. Technically, the Bundesrepublik Deutchland is the fourth reich.

Starke Von Oben said:

Did someone just let off an intellectual wet fart?

Oh no! Everyone is blowing off my insult/argument! Time to go back and find another comment to attack!

[cybdmn]

Starke Von Oben said:

What a load of bollocks.

No, it isn't. Its based on the facts.

First Reich

Second Reich

Third Reich

BTW: The word Reich is german for empire.

[Quasar]

cybdmn said:

BTW: The word Reich is german for empire.

That's one sense of it; it can also be used for kingdom, land, or nation in different contexts that we would use those words in English.

Edit: wtf? I was in the wrong thread...

[deathbringer]

Assuming "they" were going to implant chips in everybody, i'd like to see it survive having a big magnet held against it while i sleep one night.

"Your chip is malfunctioning"
"Is it, how was i supposed to know?"

[myk]

Snarboo said:
By stating that any future group, government or organization is the next "Reich" you are legitimizing the Nazis view of history.

Legitimizing Nazi ideology in what way? You're either figuratively demonizing a group by comparing it to the Nazi party or you are really thinking they are Nazis. The Nazis used it for their historical aggrandizement, but using it as an insult, which is based on the Nazi usage, is not the same thing.

If not we can go ahead and censor the word Reich, as using it makes us Nazis :p

[Maes]

Snarboo said:

By stating that any future group, government or organization is the next "Reich" you are legitimizing the Nazis view of history.

Myk's comments aside, "Reich" is by now used as an umbrella term for whoever happens to be calling the shots in a given time and place. It has a derogatory meaning, but I don't see how using it is Nazi sympathizing in any way. At most it's a sort of Reductio ad Hitlerum but revisionism? Meh.

In world history, from time to time there have been powerful groups or individuals that could literally fuck up and shape their part of the world to their whims and wishes. No matter by what name they were known -Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, Caesar, Napoleon, Atilla, Mussolini/Duce, Stalin, Hitler/Fuehrer, Hirohito etc. they all fucked up their contemporaries and their immediate -or even remote- surroundings pretty bad, and all of them created -or aimed at creating an "empire for their people", no matter how petty or large it ultimately turned out. Even if Hitler's "Reich" lasted less than all of the above, he was uncontested but by England alone for a good time.

A few years ago the USSR and USA would be the latest big players in this game, and lately the USA alone -the so-called "Pax Americana" which isn't all that of a "pax" lately.

deathbringer said:

Assuming "they" were going to implant chips in everybody, i'd like to see it survive having a big magnet held against it while i sleep one night.

It's a chip, not a magnetic strip or floppy :-p

[myk]

cybdmn said:
BTW: The word Reich is german for empire.

It's the German word for reign, to be more precise. Empire or kingdom may have similar implications but tend to refer instead to the institutional system and land rather than a period, manifestation or movement within that.

[Woolie Wool]

Starke Von Oben said:

What a load of bollocks.

Yes, because some random guy on the internet's opinion means more than the consensus of real historians with a real education in history that the "numbered Reichs" are Nazi propaganda. Yes, real historians came up with that, and that's why they never talk about Kaiser Wilhelm's Imperial Germany as the "second Reich".

[cybdmn]

myk said:

It's the German word for reign, to be more precise.

No, it isn't. Reign means "Herrschaft", "Regentschaft" and similiar or "herrschen" as a verb.