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Fulgrim

GM wants a 3rd bailout.

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The former lending arm of General Motors Co, GMAC is requesting a 3rd bailout. I did look on a few news site and did not see the amount they are asking for. But, I bet its going to be in the upper millions for sure.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20091029/BUSINESS01/910290339/GMAC+may+get+a+third+bailout

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/windsor/story/2009/10/28/gmac-asks-for-third-bailout.html


Bungalow Bill over at http://bungalowbillscw.blogspot.com summed up my opinion quite nicely in his blog found here
http://bungalowbillscw.blogspot.com/2009/10/third-government-bailout-of-general.html

GM is failing in every way. Even with the Cash for Clunkers program there sales hardly jumped. We need to stop pumping money into GM and let them die off. Ford is doing better and better. I don't have any problem with GM or there cars. I think its stupid to think giving them a 3rd bailout will do any good at this point.

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DuckReconMajor said:

Found On Road Dead


Ford isn't GM. Ford is Ford.

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meh. I'm welcoming our new socialist regime with open arms now. Why fight it?

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I also have no problem with socialism. What's funny is that the people who DO have a problem with socialism, ie. Republicans, are the ones who decided that the government should own a sizable chunk of the auto industry.

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Maybe if they hadn't have discontinued the Astro, they wouldn't have this problem. Seriously, that was like the best vehicle ever made.

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kristus said:

Oh wow, that is amazing. Too bad you can only drive it around Japan and Los Angeles, though. They need to make more of those hydrogen stations.

As far as gas-guzzlers go, though, the Astro was pretty amazing. It has the perfect balance of reliability, storage capacity, seating, customizability, and cost. It was also rather compact and relatively high in miles per gallon for a large vehicle.

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Nomad said:

Ford isn't GM. Ford is Ford.

Not only that but people have to quit saying that "Fix Or Repair Daily", etc., stuff now ;) A recent survey of the most reliable automobiles found Ford's newest sedans near the top of the list.

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Quasar said:

"Fix Or Repair Daily"

Heh, there's a similar joke regarding Volvo in Sweden. It's strictly for lolz though since Volvo generally are pretty reliable.

Danarchy said:

Oh wow, that is amazing. Too bad you can only drive it around Japan and Los Angeles, though. They need to make more of those hydrogen stations.

Yeah, progress is slow. But at least they finally built an electric car that's actually a competitive option. :)

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What's with the socialism comments? There's a difference between socialism and socialized government programs.

Also, fuck GM. I hate their cars. They're all my family buys, and they suck.

Well, I do like the Buick brand because I'm an old man at heart.

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Quasar said:

Not only that but people have to quit saying that "Fix Or Repair Daily", etc., stuff now ;) A recent survey of the most reliable automobiles found Ford's newest sedans near the top of the list.

Yeah, I have a Mazda which despite being 17 years old and rattling like a huge bucket of bolts, has only broken down twice in the 3 years I've had it. One of them was very costly, but still that's not bad for something that old.

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Creaphis said:

I also have no problem with socialism. What's funny is that the people who DO have a problem with socialism, ie. Republicans, are the ones who decided that the government should own a sizable chunk of the auto industry.


Big Government Republicans =/= Actual Republicans

Learn the difference. It could save your life.

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Mr. Freeze said:

If they got rid of the goddamn unions, they'd be much better off.

I'm curious about this, but what about unions is bad to you? Are you against worker's rights, do you feel unions are corrupt, do you dislike socialism in general or do you simply hate the auto unions?

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't most unions privately owned organizations that merely interact with businesses on behalf of the workers?

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Snarboo said:

I'm curious about this, but what about unions is bad to you? Are you against worker's rights, do you feel unions are corrupt, do you dislike socialism in general or do you simply hate the auto unions?

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't most unions privately owned organizations that merely interact with businesses on behalf of the workers?


I used to work at UPS as a package handler. Everything we did was handled by the Teamsters.

Never before in my life have I been so frustrated at someone concerning my job. Every time I need to talk to my boss? Oh wait, gotta call the Union representative to come down. Paycheck issues? Gotta call the Teamsters to sort my shit out. Hey, why is my paycheck small? Union fees.

Unions are just a pain in the ass nowadays. They used to be a vital part of the workforce, but with OSHA Compliance and being under the threat to sue, the modern workforce no longer needs unions.

Keep in mind, Unions speak FOR you. Do you really want a total stranger handling your wages, working conditions, and hours? I don't.

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Mr. Freeze said:

Do you really want a total stranger handling your wages, working conditions, and hours? I don't.

Isn't this implied by having a job in the first place? I don't know of many people who have the privilege of setting their owns hours, wages etc. Whether it's set by a union or your boss seems irrelevant to me.

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Snarboo said:

Isn't this implied by having a job in the first place? I don't of many people who have the privilege of setting their owns hours, wages etc. Whether it's set by a union or your boss seems irrelevant to me.


Any decent job will allow you to work certain hours or not. Keep in mind, some unions have hour limitations: want to put in overtime to help save up for that sweet new vidya gaem? Sorry. Unions won't allow that. Nevermind that YOU do.

Hourly wages might be the same with or without a union, but keep in mind that as a part of a Union, you'll have to pay dues and entrance fees. I had to pay $250 when I first joined UPS, spread out over several weeks. When I was fired, I was informed that I would not be getting that money back. $250 to my then-19-year-old butt was- and still is!- a lot of cash.

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Patrick said:

Let 'em fail. I'd only ever buy a Japanese car.


There are some very good Japanese cars out there, but I think Germany has the best foreign cars.

However, y'all lose to the power of Pontiac.

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I don't know that much about unions, but I can understand why you dislike them if they put restrictions on you like that.

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It sucks my dad got me a used '94 GMC Jimmy for my graduation present. I mean, a car's a car but I feel like the biggest sellout in the world driving it. Not to mention I'd hate the car even if it weren't for the GMC logo on the front.

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Fuck that, let them burn to the ground. Irresponsible spending leads to high debt and eventual collapse of an entity, whether it's an individual, corporation or government.

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Mr. Freeze said:

However, y'all lose to the power of Pontiac.

That being the power to go fast in a straight line (though not as fast as an engine of that size should permit) and then weave, roll, and fall like a drunk as soon as it comes to the first bend in the road it meets. ie, the perfect American Muscle car. :P

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GMAC has been in trouble for a while. In the years before my Dad passed he used to be a Vice President for one of branches back home. Things were alright but you would hear about the trouble the company itself was having and you knew it wasn't going to last, especially with GM's record as a whole. Come Spring time earlier this year they closed down that whole branch and everyone working there got laid off.

I don't know if GMAC deserves this bailout quite frankly, but I'm sure that's already one of the main issues at hand

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Mr. Freeze said:

There are some very good Japanese cars out there, but I think Germany has the best foreign cars.

However, y'all lose to the power of Pontiac.


GM axed the pontiac brand a couple of months back. They fucked Saab and sold it to Koenigsegg who employ about 50 people and now own a major car brand. Sold Opel/Vauxhall just as they bought out the new Agila, Astra and Insignia which are all selling very well and are the best mainstream european cars from opel/vauxhall ever and tehn sold in to Magna in Canada. Chevrolet in Europe are shite tarted up Daewoos and are not much better in the states although the current Corvette is the best Corvette ever. Cadillac have an old fart image as do Buick. Hummer was the wrong car at the wrong time. GMC are uncompetative.
But as far as I'm aware Holden in Australia are doing well...

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Enjay said:
That being the power to go fast in a straight line (though not as fast as an engine of that size should permit) and then weave, roll, and fall like a drunk as soon as it comes to the first bend in the road it meets. ie, the perfect American Muscle car. :P

Heh, at least it makes a cool toy for kids. I had a 10" or so remote control toy of that pictured '70s model, which is the one that looks great. Other Firebird generations... meh.

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As much as I'd like to blame the autoworkers union, I can't. Ford employees are in it as well and Ford seems to be doing fine. Employees at Japanese plants in North America also make around the same amount AFAIK. So the problem seems to be GMs management. Since management types aren't prone to firing each-other, I doubt a third bailout will help.

Some what off-topic, but this situation reminds me of Air Canada. For you non-Canadians there was a time when Air Canada was our only airline. It continuously went bankrupt due to poor service and incompetent management, yet our government continues to bail them out because they're "essential". I wish I could own an "essential" business so I could be as corrupt as possible and get away with it.

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PhilibusMo said:

They fucked Saab and sold it to Koenigsegg who employ about 50 people and now own a major car brand.


Heh. I hope you don't diss on Koenigsegg. They got an excellent track record when it comes to quality and safety. And they are no strangers to major undertakings. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koenigsegg

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