Russian Arsenal (alsmot ready, need advice)

[Agent_Ash]

The mod is almost ready. I need some advice about the title for main menu. Check my message at the end of the thread.

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The following weapons will be present:

1. Fists. Quick, powerful and silent. Plus army knife. Less quick, more powerful. Both affected by Berserk.
2. PM (Makarov pistol)
3.1 Saiga-12 (semi-auto shotgun)
3.3 TOZ-34 (hunting shotgun, slower, more powerful, more accurate than Saiga)
4. PP-19 "Bizon" (9mm SMG with 64-ammo clip)
5. RG-6 (revolver-type grenade launcher)
6. AK-74 (you know this one, right?)
7. RPG-7 (anti-tank rocket launcher)

Will be released in two versions: one standalone and one compatible with Beautiful Doom. BTW, BD 4.7 is coming.


# Original message #

I had an idea to create a themed weapon mod. Of course, I always try to present some theme in the mod, but this time I wanted it to be something unusual. So I picked Russian guns... yeah, probably, partly because I am Russian... anyway, I'm thinking about including restyled Makarov-Shigapov Pistol, Bekas 12M shotgun, AK-74 (with attached grenade launcher probably), SVD and maybe something else. I'm not much of an artist myself, though I'm pretty good at modifying and generally reworking the sprites, but I need something as a base. So, I can make Bekas (as it has pretty usual looks for a shotgun) and AK (as it's popular anyway), but SVD (Dragunov Sniper Rifle) and Makarov are going to be a problem. Can somebody advise me where I can get some useful sprites?

[Patrick]

Far Cry 2 has a makarov and a dragunov sniper rifle. if I take some screenshots, can you edit them to what you need?

[wildweasel]

FPSBanana's Counter-Strike and Condition Zero sections will likely have what you need, and using Jed's Half-Life Model Viewer, it'll be a cinch to convert them into Doom sprites. Just make sure to take note of who did your source models, because they deserve tons of credit for their work.

[Agent_Ash]

Patrick
Well, I can, the problem is that it would be a pain in the ass to cut it out of the background image, which will be 1) the game environment; 2) the game HUD (e.g. ammo stats are usually shown on the right and overlap the picture of the gun on the game screentshots). These, however, can be solved, though not always. Normally you can turn the hud off. In Half-Life 2 I also could use NOCLIP and fly out of the map -- in this case the area outside the map in Half-Life is purely white, from which the weapon can be cut easily. So, yeah, some screenshots could certainly be useful, though not necessarily.

WildWeasel
That's interesting, I'll try it. Although sprites made out of models usually look strange, but I'll try.


And, BTW, I just remembered... There's SVD in XIII. It's cartoonish, of course, but for a sprite it may even turn useful.

[Shaikoten]

You so need a PPSh-41 and a PD, the bullet hose and the Russian Typewriter.

[Patrick]

Ecks vs. Sever for the GBA had some russian gun sprites, but they look pretty cartoony too. I can probably make some rips for you. As for the Far Cry 2 guns, I can simply clip out of the map and disable the HUD to get a much more usable image.

[Agent_Ash]

Patrick
That would be great!

Shaikoten
No, I don't think any chainguns are going to be present. I suppose, that the line of guns is going to be something like this:

2: Makarov
3: Bekas, SVD
4: P-19 "Bizon"
5: RG-6
6: AK-74 with RPK-74 magazines (45 ammo) and it's going to be powerful
7: RPO-M "Shmel-M" (basically an RPG)


First, I don't want to include any mounted weapons to use, because they are mounted. So, no RPK, no multi-barrelled guns (as not-mounted ones they don't exist), nothing like that. This thing is going to be somewhat realistic. Second, I won't include old guns. No Mosin, no PPSh, even no PTRS-41 and no AK-47.

So, AK-74 won't be a chaingun replacement, because it is a powerful gun. I'd like P-19, something simpler to be its replacement. P-19 has 64 ammo magazine and uses the same ammo as Makarov, so it's going to be logical. While AK-74 will make a good plasmagun replacement, especially with 45 ammo magazine. RPO-M may be not the same as BFG, but hey, it's an rpg, it's too powerful for Doom's mini-rocket launcher replacement.

[Super Jamie]

Goldeneye's KF-7 Soviet is an unlicensed ripoff of an AK-47.

[Agent_Ash]

Super Jamie, yeah, but I don't see how this is going to help me.

[Patrick]

Arrgh, unfortunately clipping outta a map causes a hom like effect with the guns. These really won't be usable for you. I think using FPSBanana to make model rips is a good place to start.

[Agent_Ash]

Patrick
Don't worry, I'll think of something. I just remembered that Stalker can also help me.

[Agent_Ash]

I found necessary materials, working now. You can check the revised arsenal list in the first post.

[Visplane Overflow]

AK-47 =! AK-74

As well, if memory serves me, the KF7 was based on the AKM, which is also (technically, but I'm nitpicking at this point) not an AK-47. In fact, you hardly ever see 47s around, as they were only made for a few years after WW2. This sounds like a neat weapons mod, Payne. It sounds like it could bring some 'culture' to Doom modding :P

[wildweasel]

I always loved the Russian style of firearms - simple design equals reliability. So while I will kind of mourn the absence of some of my Russian favorites (the Mosin-Nagant, the OTs-38 silent revolver, the VSS Vintorez), I'll probably be quite happy with the results regardless.

And, uh, just as a request out of convenience, could you make this not require Beautiful Doom to be loaded with it? I wouldn't mind a somewhat larger download if it means being easier to load at the command line (and not having to track down whatever latest version is that you uploaded and praying it's still compatible).

[Agent_Ash]

Like I said, I will PROBABLY make two versions -- one requiring BD and one standalone. By "probably" I actually meant that I may or may not decide to make a BD-based version, while the main version will certainly be standalone, so, WW, don't worry :)

I, of course, would like to make more weapons. I'd like to make SVU. But how would I implement it? I really don't want to split ammunition, replacing basic Doom ammo with more types of ammo (I already have to do it, as rockets for RPG-7 will sometimes be spawned along with AK ammo, which will be cell replacement). I made a hunting rifle in Bad Guns 2 and I had to make its ammunition be sometimes spawned with shells, which I don't want to do this time. Thus there's no place for SVU.

I may implement OTs-33 "Pernash". It's a modern full-auto pistol with 27 ammo magazine, a successor of APS. It uses 9x18 PM ammo. However, is it really sensible? We already have "Bizon", it has larger clip and uses the same ammo. And I first think in the matter of gameplay, not the amount of cool guns I'd like to include. But still, maybe I will. The only advantage of OTs-33 over PP-19 is, however, its firespeed (700-800 shots/min with "Bizon" and 900 with "Pernash").



As for versions of AK, it is as follows.

First there were experimental variants, but the first AK was so-called AK-46 for 7.62x41mm ammo. After some more experimental variants AK-47 appeared (7.62x39mm), which, despite some visual similarity, was a completely new assault rifle. It kept being modified over the years, in the end being remade as AKM (M stands for "modernizirovanniy", i.e. "restyled", "modernized", it had different receiver and some other elements). It was accepted as main military weapon in 1959. At the same time RPK was presented.

In 1974 AK-74 and RPK-74 were developed. Basically it's a similar weapon, but it uses modern 5.45x39mm ammunition. It's more convenient, but, obviously, the firepower is slightly lower. The main military weapon since 1990s is AK-74M, which has folding butt made of black plastic, as well as forearm. Also later AN-94 "Abakan" was made on AK base, a modern, but, obviously, more expensive and less reliable weapon. It doesn't seem to be going to replace AK-74 in Russia and is nowadays used limitedly.

However, AKM and EVEN AK-47 are sometimes still used. Often it's the matter of personal choice, mostly because of mentioned higher firepower resulting from larger caliber of older guns. See for yourself: modern Russian assault rifle type of ammunition (5.45x39 7H6) has muzzle velocity of 880 m/s and muzzle energy of 1329 J, while the characteristics of older 7.62x39 57-N-231 are 710 m/s and 2010 J respectively. So, as you see, the accuracy seems to be better with newer ammo, but their piercing ability is probably lower. However, progress in firearms always results in decreasing caliber. Muskets used something like 15-20mm bullets.

Funnily, however, many AK-1xx versions, which are intended for export, use old 7.62x39 ammunition and are compatible with AK-47, AKM and old RPK clips, though, of course, most AK-1xx are intended to use 5.56 NATO ammunition.

[Agent_Ash]

OK, guys, the mod is almost ready. Actually, apart from some testing, I've finished it. Now I want some advice on the title. I mean the picture. Or maybe a titlemap. I had some idea about a titlemap that demostrates the guns and a hudmessage scripts that show various statistics on the guns, but I have no idea about what layout to use for the map. I think that just a white room with guns on the tables in it wouldn't be especially interesting. So, I need a piece of avice here.

[Patrick]

My suggestion would be hand-drawn guns on a piece of paper, with stats written next to them

[Mr. Freeze]

Why not something like this, but with the title above? Everyone knows the AK, and it shows what the mod is about without spoiling every gun.

[Agent_Ash]

AK on grey background is too plain. But maybe I could combine both ideas. Like AK and some guns schematics on the background...

[Lizardcommando]

How about using a picture of a Russian Special Forces operative in action or something for the Titlepic?