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Glaice

Health Care Reform passes US House

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The spellchecker strikes again!

I'm curious to see how much change will come out of this. The rest of the western world switched to government-provided care long, long ago and yet this still doesn't seem to do that. There are so many variants of this one floating around that now I'm not sure exactly what it does.

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Is this the one with the forced health insurance?

FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU-

I REALLY hope this doesn't pass in the senate. This will assrape us all.

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Unless you get really sick and the private insurance you may not even have throws you out based on a technicality. Can't happen if it's (properly) government regulated.

It's typical ignorance of healthy people who block such laws. Ever known someone suffering from cancer or other serious conditions who can't afford the treatment?

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I much prefer our inefficient and underfunded public health care system to what they have in the US. At least I can be sure that if I'm seriously ill I will get treatment after those 6-12 months without having to sell my house, and if the condition is life-threatening I will get treatment immediately, no questions asked.

Of course if I wanted to I could still sell my house and enter a private clinic.

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Belial said:

Of course if I wanted to I could still sell my house and enter a private clinic.

Same here, but who needs a house? They're overrated anyways.

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Belial said:

I much prefer our inefficient and underfunded public health care system to what they have in the US. At least I can be sure that if I'm seriously ill I will get treatment after those 6-12 months without having to sell my house, and if the condition is life-threatening I will get treatment immediately, no questions asked.

Of course if I wanted to I could still sell my house and enter a private clinic.


Hear hear!

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I live in the dumbest country on earth. Seriously, one-fifth of this country actually believes that Barack Obama wasn't born here. There are elected members of Congress (see: Michelle Bachmann R-MN) who are comparing health care reform to the holocaust. Yes, that holocaust. The one with Hitler. Protesters had signs of emaciated jewish corpses from concentration camp photos. They stood on the steps of the capital building in Washington DC with these pictures and rallied against their own wellbeing.

The bill that passed is a joke. It's a watered-down handout to insurance companies. All it does is give private insurance more customers.

It's goddamn terrifying. We can't get a single basic human right down because there are too many people making money off of sickness.

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Fiend said:

I live in the dumbest country on earth. Seriously, one-fifth of this country actually believes that Barack Obama wasn't born here.

Source?

Also when did health care become a basic human right anyway? I mean, I'm not saying it's not a great thing to have but when were people pretty much ever born in history, minus very modern times, with the RIGHT to health care? Not sure it classifies as a "basic" human right.

But I digress

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Fiend said:

comparing health care reform to the holocaust.


Well, seeing how the McCarthyist "Red Scare" rhetoric will probably not have the bang it once had, they reverted to something equally shocking, but not necessarily related. Unless they are comparing the health care to come with the one given to holocaust victims.

Ahhh...where are the good, happy times where you know where your enemy was?

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Ralphis said:

Also when did health care become a basic human right anyway? [...] Not sure it classifies as a "basic" human right.

lol

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Ralphis said:

Also when did health care become a basic human right anyway? I mean, I'm not saying it's not a great thing to have but when were people pretty much ever born in history, minus very modern times, with the RIGHT to health care? Not sure it classifies as a "basic" human right.

Could you define a more basic human right than life?

I don't know, everyone is so focused on the society we live in that they're not even thinking about the society we want to live in. I personally would like to live in one where being poor isn't a death sentence.

But as for the bill, I'm not willing to judge it yea or nay before I see the results.

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Bank said:

Could you define a more basic human right than life?


This whole discussion reminded me of this excerpt from Starship Troopers (which is hardly a run-of-the-mill view on society):


"The basis of all morality is duty, a concept with the same relation to group that self-interest has to individual. Nobody preached duty to these kids in a way they could understand — that is, with a spanking. But the society they were in told them endlessly about their 'rights.' "

"The results should have been predictable, since a human being has no natural rights of any nature."

Mr. Dubois had paused. Somebody took the bait. "Sir? How about 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness'?"

"Ah, yes, the 'unalienable rights.' Each year someone quotes that magnificent poetry. Life? What 'right' to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What 'right' to life has a man who must die if he is to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of 'right'? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's right is 'unalienable'? And is it 'right'? As to liberty, the heroes who signed that great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called 'natural human rights' that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost.

"The third 'right'? — the 'pursuit of happiness'? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can 'pursue happiness' as long as my brain lives — but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can insure that I will catch it."


Draw your conclusions, gentlemen.

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Meh... I doubt it'll get past the senate. The second group of voters, whether house or senate, have a tendency to vote down most any bill. Especially close ones like this. It'll be a shock if it makes it through.

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Maes said:

This whole discussion reminded me of this excerpt from Starship Troopers (which is hardly a run-of-the-mill view on society):



Draw your conclusions, gentlemen.


I once read a more interesting view on rights from the philosopher Jamie Whyte: a right means nothing without a corresponding duty; in fact a right is defined by the duty that comes along with it. A right to life gives everyone else a duty not to kill you. A right to property gives other people a duty to leave it alone and make sure other people do the same. A right to free speech gives people a duty not to silence others for saying things they don't want to hear. A right to health care gives everyone a duty to pay for it. Yes, that means the rich healthy people have to pay, too. Your money is not worth more than a cancer patient's life.

Everyone wants rights. No one wants duties. Everybody wants to go to heaven, and no one wants to die. That is the problem with America.

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Woolie Wool said:

Everyone wants rights. No one wants duties. Everybody wants to go to heaven, and no one wants to die. That is the problem with America.



Not just America. It's worse there though. :D

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Woolie Wool said:

I once read a more interesting view on rights from the philosopher Jamie Whyte: a right means nothing without a corresponding duty; in fact a right is defined by the duty that comes along with it. A right to life gives everyone else a duty not to kill you. A right to property gives other people a duty to leave it alone and make sure other people do the same. A right to free speech gives people a duty not to silence others for saying things they don't want to hear. A right to health care gives everyone a duty to pay for it. Yes, that means the rich healthy people have to pay, too. Your money is not worth more than a cancer patient's life.

Everyone wants rights. No one wants duties. Everybody wants to go to heaven, and no one wants to die. That is the problem with America.


Good post.

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Woolie Wool said:

Everyone wants rights. No one wants duties. Everybody wants to go to heaven, and no one wants to die. That is the problem with America.


As the great Mao Zedong once said, "It's better to be young, handsome, rich and healthy, than being old, ugly, poor and sick".

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Fiend said:

There are elected members of Congress (see: Michelle Bachmann R-MN) who are comparing health care reform to the holocaust. Yes, that holocaust. The one with Hitler. Protesters had signs of emaciated jewish corpses from concentration camp photos. They stood on the steps of the capital building in Washington DC with these pictures and rallied against their own wellbeing.

What the fuck? Are you serious?

The bill that passed is a joke. It's a watered-down handout to insurance companies. All it does is give private insurance force expensive private insurance on more customers poor people.

FTFY

Woolie Wool said:

I once read a more interesting view on rights from the philosopher Jamie Whyte: a right means nothing without a corresponding duty; in fact a right is defined by the duty that comes along with it. A right to life gives everyone else a duty not to kill you. A right to property gives other people a duty to leave it alone and make sure other people do the same. A right to free speech gives people a duty not to silence others for saying things they don't want to hear. A right to health care gives everyone a duty to pay for it. Yes, that means the rich healthy people have to pay, too. Your money is not worth more than a cancer patient's life.

Everyone wants rights. No one wants duties. Everybody wants to go to heaven, and no one wants to die. That is the problem with America.

I pretty much agree with that. People are unwilling to pay a little bit of tax so they can have (and give their fellow people) free health care. The same applies to a lot of other things like public transportation, fire coverage, police overage, and education. You should see the damaged certain over-privileged, self-centered assholes *cough*Tim Eyman*cough* who convinced the local voters that taxes = bad. Now we have lower taxes (for people with homes and new vehicles) while the fire and police departments and school system are hurting, we're starting to get toll roads, and you can't get a goddamn bus anywhere anymore. Luckily people started seeing through that bullshit, but the policies still are having a lingering effect and no ones done anything to help these institutions at all.

It really annoys me that these people refuse to give up even a penny because they think it might go to help someone that isn't them. These fucking self-centered assholes would rather let people die all the while saying "I'm glad it isn't me". I'm poor and I'd be GLAD to pay more taxes if it means helping out the health care system (or public transit or any other such government services). If I were rich, I'd be even HAPPIER to pay taxes. But instead, the world seems to be getting overrun with social darwinists. Everyone just seems to care about themselves and as long as they have everything THEY need at the moment, fuck everyone else. There's no such thing as community anymore, just a kill-or-be-killed mentality.

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It's being stalled and not much if at any progress in the Senate..all I can say is FUCK YOU big insurance lobbies!

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Wow, that's fucked up.

Mr. Chris said:

It's being stalled and not much if at any progress in the Senate..all I can say is FUCK YOU big insurance lobbies!

I REALLY hope this is true. I really don't want to be thrown in jail for being poor.

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Ralphis said:
Also when did health care become a basic human right anyway?

Internationally, since 1948 (Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.)

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Danarchy said:

What the fuck? Are you serious?

More great moment in Republican rhetorics history:

Where we learn that Obama is Hitler and the Joker all-in-one!

Did you know Hitler was Kenyan, too?

Not just America -- the whole world is threatened!

Apparently, reformed pastries could help us. There's hope yet! After all, didn't French bread recently thwart the CERN's nefarious plan to destroy the Earth in a black hole? If a baguette can protect us from the apocalypse, I guess a torte can protect us from the Holocaust.

They say one can judge a man by his enemies. If this is also true of things, then we can judge from these enemies that the health care reform is the best thing since sliced bread.

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