According to issue 200 of GameInformer...

[Nomad]

Doom is only the 6th top game (out of 200) of all time. Behind Half-Life 2 (5), Grand Theft Auto III (4), Tetris (3), Super Mario Bros. (2), and The Legend of Zelda (1).

I loved Half-Life 2, but better than Doom? Not by a long shot. Surely nobody will be still playing HL2 in 10 years like the Doom community still has.

GTAIII? Maybe it's because I only played it after I had already played Vice City and San Andreas, but I thought it was pretty lame. San Andreas was by far the best GTA game and it's sitting at #64 (GTAIV ended up at #46). But still, better than Doom? I doubt it will leave as lasting a footprint as Doom has either.

Tetris definitely deserves to be somewhere in the top 5. It has always been the ultimate puzzle game and after nearly 30 years it is still the reigning champ.

Super Mario Bros. was fun. I'd say SMB3 was the best (which ended up on #9 itself), and Mario also certainly deserves a spot in the top 5. If you ask anyone, young or old about video games, and ask them to name a character, Mario would probably be the first to spill out of everyone's mouth.

The first Zelda game, frankly, was crap. Link to the Past deserved a higher spot than the first one (which ended up as #12).

Of course, I don't expect to actually agree with a magazine on something so subjective as "top games," but some of these don't actually seem to have full consideration put into them.

What do you think? Anyone else got the new GI and seen the article?

By the way, I was a little more than upset that Fallout 3 got #65, the first one is hidden waaaaay back at #117, and Fallout 2 is nowhere to be seen (which arguably was better than the first). Come on. Those two were among the greatest computer RPGS created!

Also, FYI, they stuck Doom II at #167. I guess Sandy Petersen's levels brought it down more than I thought. ;P

[Lüt]

I think it's obvious that they're paying attention to historical context, not just comparing every game to the current best standards.

Which is appropriate for a list like this.

I haven't played HL2 or GTA3, but from what I've seen and know of their impact on the gaming community, I'm surprised they're placed ahead of Doom.

I did love the first Zelda game though. It was probably my most-played NES game of that time, as Link To The Past was during the SNES phase.

Come to think of it, they're both due for a replay soon. It's been nearly a year.

[Mithral_Demon]

Lüt said:

I think it's obvious that they're paying attention to historical context, not just comparing every game to the current best standards.

Which is appropriate for a list like this.

I haven't played HL2 or GTA3, but from what I've seen and know of their impact on the gaming community, I'm surprised they're placed ahead of Doom.

I did love the first Zelda game though. It was probably my most-played NES game of that time, as Link To The Past was during the SNES phase.

Come to think of it, they're both due for a replay soon. It's been nearly a year.

That reminds me of doing that too... Don't forget Super Mario World while you're at it.

It's awesome Doom is still in the Top 10, just hopefully it doesn't get pushed back more.

[DuckReconMajor]

My issue hasn't come yet.

Anyway, to be honest, I'm surprised it ranked that high. Knowing Game Informer, I'm surprised it's on the list.

[Mr. Freeze]

Even though I like Doom's place on the list (although I don't agree), game "journalists" are below tabloid reporters in terms of journalistic integrity. They will LITERALLY give a good review to a game if enough cash changes hands. And who the fuck is stupid enough to pay attention to "professional" reviews?

Got rid of Game (Mis)Informer about 2 years. Haven't looked back since. Too bad it isn't the '90s when gaming mags were actually full of decent info and much-needed cheats.

[Nomad]

DuckReconMajor said:

My issue hasn't come yet.

Anyway, to be honest, I'm surprised it ranked that high. Knowing Game Informer, I'm surprised it's on the list.

Yeah, I wonder how much Carmack paid them.

Still though I'm glad Doom was in the top 10, at least. I remember on some bullshit list that G4 did years ago, Doom barely got a mention in some montage video. I'm sure some game featuring huge tits and penis jokes topped their list.

[jon_infektion]

GTA III is regarded higher then Vice City and San Andreas because it was the first GTA game to adopt that format for which the later games (and many other games that have now gotten the "Sandbox style") would follow. It was not the first by any means, but I think it really made it big

[Scuba Steve]

HL2 is NOT a top10 game. Half Life is, period. HL2 is just an evolutionary step in game design... the original was revolutionary... almost as important as Doom in terms of genre/industry defining. Half Life 2 is one of the most overrated games in recent gaming history.

This isn't even arguable, it's a well known fact.

[Shaikoten]

Nomad said:

Also, FYI, they stuck Doom II at #167. I guess Sandy Petersen's levels brought it down more than I thought. ;P

This game was just shy of the top 200.

[Bucket]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't remember SMB or Zelda having that much impact. The franchises certainly have gotten huge, but the games themselves, not so much. I think longevity is a huge piece of the puzzle and in that regard, Doom beats them all (with the exception of Tetris).

[Philnemba]

I don't care much for GTA 3(I prefer the top down perspective ones not the 3d ones) and as for Halflife 2, never got into that game(I've once play ep2 demo on my 360 once) however DOOM should be higher than that game. I feel that SMB3 had a MUCH better impact than the original and should be in #2 not #9 although I'm surprise LOZ:Ocarina of Time didn't make #1(not my favorite Zelda game but still one of the best games in the franchise). Also Tetris FTW ^^

[jon_infektion]

^ Completely agree on Ocarina, my favorite as well.

[Philnemba]

jon_infektion said:

Completely agree on Ocarina, my favorite as well.

You misread me, I didn't say that OoT was my favorite Zelda game(grant it, its still an awesome game) but if you want to know, Link's Awaking for the gameboy is actually my favorite.

[Nomad]

Bucket said:

Maybe it's just me, but I don't remember SMB or Zelda having that much impact. The franchises certainly have gotten huge, but the games themselves, not so much. I think longevity is a huge piece of the puzzle and in that regard, Doom beats them all (with the exception of Tetris).

That's mostly what I was getting at with my post, ESPECIALLY about Half-Life 2. Like I said, no one is going to be playing HL2 in 10+ years. At least not to the extent that Doomers still do after nearly 16 and will for the foreseeable future. In terms of longevity, it's second only to Tetris like you said.

Philnemba said:

Link's Awaking for the gameboy is actually my favorite.

THIS. I loved that game, but the end bosses were so fucking hard. I had the game for probably a decade before I finally beat it. I have (and still do) the original one, too, not the DX one made for GBC. I might have to download the DX ROM and check out the extra stuff.

Ages and Seasons were both really good too. Frankly my favorite Zelda games have been the handhelds (Phantom Hourglass was pretty decent too, if a little too easy once you figured it out)

And really, this all ties into what I was saying in the first post: While Mario and Zelda may have had a good start, their later games really were better and deserve to be higher up on the "Top" games list. I should think a "Top 200" should be in order of actually being good, rather than being a popularity contest.

[Aliotroph?]

PC Gamer had a list a few years ago that had Half-Life in the top spot. These lists are guaranteed bullshit anyway, though. Sure, DOOM and Tetris make top five in any list, but then what? Pong? It ushered in the whole thing, even though it sucks. What about stuff like Bejeweled, which sucked in millions of non-gamers? Or WoW?

Bah! Lists like this are stupid. If you're going to talk about various games and what they did or why they're awesome, fine, but trying to quantify them into ordered lists is retarded.

[jon_infektion]

Philnemba said:

You misread me, I didn't say that OoT was my favorite Zelda game

Your right, my bad. Never played the handheld versions so that would explain how I feel. Some of the list is ridiculous with orders

Heres the complete list for those that aren't subscribed http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/153571-game-informer-top-200-games-of-all-time/

[Visplane Overflow]

Uhh...Wouldn't a list of the top games be only reflective of the author's opinion? Disagreeing with somebody's opinion does not automatically make it 'bullshit'.

I don't know why anybody bothers reading lists of 'top games', since like I said, it boils down to opinion, since you can't quantify how 'good' a game is, unless we wanted to go by units sold, or profits earned (which would also be pointless).

[Prince of Darkness]

Visplane Overflow said:

Uhh...Wouldn't a list of the top games be only reflective of the author's opinion? Disagreeing with somebody's opinion does not automatically make it 'bullshit'.

I don't know why anybody bothers reading lists of 'top games', since like I said, it boils down to opinion, since you can't quantify how 'good' a game is, unless we wanted to go by units sold, or profits earned (which would also be pointless).

Exactly. All lists of "top 10" are, in some way, biased towards the creators/authors opinion, making them useless. For instance, I was amazed by not seeing System Shock 2 or Mechwarrior 2 , both of which I think deserve a place.

[Aliotroph?]

The concept remains bullshit. Why should we care what any specific author thinks are the top ten games? And really, can anybody say exactly what they think are the top ten in order? It's silly.

[Maes]

At least they really included games from all times in this ranking. Usually such magazines restrict the "top games" to latest releases or console games only (or both).

[azureace]

Well as a former writer/Journalist for a News paper (Did the City/Community pages) I can tell you papers/magazines/e-zines yadda yadda are pretty much driven by Politics just like nearly every thing else around the world lately.

I have seen lists pop up in the City paper of the 100 most ground breaking/Influential video games IN history.Ok For starters the only 2 games on that list that were from before 1990 were Pong and Kings Quest...the paper went as far as Stating that MYST Pioneered The First person shoot Genre and that Half-life was the first Violent Shooter game. (this was in part of our editors son being really big in to Sierra Softs games so 9% of the games on the list were Sierra games..Doom was NOT mentioned but they mentioned quake as a sub-par knock off of Half Life. i still loath seeing the child on the streets he put some very good games on the list that was called the Worst society had to offer (Games that have no social,technical or even moral benefits for society (also known as games that "Died" with in a week of release, which i find the title misleading since Doom doom 2 Duke 3d Mario Unreal Tourney Halo of and Sid Myers civilization

What my point is, The industry is full of Politics and Back door err broom closet meetings and deals.Any Gaming company will tell you 9 times outta 10 the Press will Make or Break a game before it is released..its up to the game to pull its weight after that first 2 weeks when they hype that the press throws to spiffy up the game wears off.

[Shaviro]

Scuba Steve said:

HL2 is NOT a top10 game. Half Life is, period. HL2 is just an evolutionary step in game design... the original was revolutionary... almost as important as Doom in terms of genre/industry defining. Half Life 2 is one of the most overrated games in recent gaming history.

This isn't even arguable, it's a well known fact.

I agree 100%.
In my eyes, Half-Life was revolutionary and extremely well-designed in most aspects. Half-Life 2, on the other hand, was just a waste of a great franchise. Considering what they had to work with, they REALLY messed it up. HL1 had one of the best and varied monster casts I've seen, it even rivals that of Doom. HL2 turned the HL universe into a disney movie. Ew.

[DuckReconMajor]

Bucket said:

Maybe it's just me, but I don't remember SMB or Zelda having that much impact. The franchises certainly have gotten huge, but the games themselves, not so much. I think longevity is a huge piece of the puzzle and in that regard, Doom beats them all (with the exception of Tetris).

Didn't they help the NES pull the video game industry out of that crash?

Anyway, as for longevity, I say Doom, SMB, and Zelda are about equal. Outside of a small dedicated community of fans, they're all "that game I played as a kid".

[Patrick]

Aliotroph? said:

Bah! Lists like this are stupid. If you're going to talk about various games and what they did or why they're awesome, fine, but trying to quantify them into ordered lists is retarded.

I'm pleased that Doom is still getting some attention after 15 years, but yes, generally speaking, these lists are pretty useless.

[Scet]

Back in 2001 I had a subscription to Computer Gaming World. They also had a "top games" list in their 200th issue. However instead of being just a long list they picked 5 games in each genre, and everyone their voted. It was surprising accurate(as far as I remember), and shows how to do a real list. I'll try to find it and post what it said.

Edit: I was completely wrong. They have Doom as the #1 FPS game, but in their top 10 it's not even listed.

[Bucket]

DuckReconMajor said:

Didn't they help the NES pull the video game industry out of that crash?

Technically, I suppose, but so did the whole of PC gaming. Let's not forget arcades.

[Nomad]

Bucket said:

Let's not forget arcades.

That's a good point. I just looked through the list again, and while there are mentions here and there of arcade games, I noticed one humongous glaring missing item:

Absolutely zero mention of Dance Dance Revolution. Who cares about that game, right? I hate it, but there's no way you can deny its ushering in the popularity of the music game. I actually chuckled a little. The only music games listed were Guitar Hero, and Rock Band 2 nestled in at #49 and #73 respectively. With as hugely popular as those two franchises are right now, I'm surprised they're not higher too.

[Snarboo]

I've never understood lists like these, especially when the ranking criteria isn't given. Are they ranked according to objective quality, popularity, number of players or most revolutionary? It seems like in most cases it was the author's personal favorites.

Most of the time "best of" articles are filler anyway so it's safe to ignore them.

[Coopersville]

Doom not making #1 on a list?! Pic semi-related.

[40oz]

GTA 4 was so bad. I don't understand how the general public can't admit that. GTA3 got a ton of replay value out of me but i doubt it still has as big a community as doom.