Pondering what people want for DOOM 4 (weapons, monsters, gameplay, modernizing)

[geo]

With FPS taking leaps forward with homing missiles, sticky bombs, shrink rays, gravity guns and portal guns, what kind of weapons do you want to see in DOOM4?

DOOM is really dated, the shotgun doesn't have a flashlight at the end, yet today's swat teams do.

Be creative. What about custom or create a weapon? Considering Bethesda will be publishing ID games, it might not be far off.

Aw heck, why stop there? What kind of monsters would you like to see?

[kristus]

I don't want any stupid gimmick weapons in Doom4. KTNX

[DoomUK]

kristus said:

I don't want any stupid gimmick weapons in Doom4. KTNX

This.

Both the soul cube in D3 and the artifact in RoE were extremely lame gameplay mechanics.


EDIT: If anything, give us a quad-barreled shotgun or something preposterous. But no gimmick weapons.

[neubejiita]

http://bejiitas_wrath.tripod.com/uploaded_images/myweapon.jpg

This is my loadout, it would be quite effective against all but the strongest monsters.

And this: http://www.strategypage.com/military_photos/XM_25.aspx

[printz]

geo said:

shrink rays

That sounds interesting, unless the whole point of the shrink ray is to be able to squash 'em, and do so repeatedly on every shrink situation.

The hell, hand-cannoned monsters should be able to shrink the player.

It's funny how none of the Doom 1/2 weapons were ditched before Doom 3, so I can't get nostalgic on any. Ok, maybe a grenade launcher would be great. So what if it's not Quake? Quake 2 did borrow the BFG...

The chainsaw is a must.

Some "demonic" Hexen-like melee weapons would be great, and be used on maps without ammo. The chainsaw, to compensate, would require fuel in that situation...

[geo]

According to a few creators, Doom is supposedly Aliens meets Evil Dead. I never once found any Evil Dead reference beyond the comic. However, Duke Nuke'em was loaded with Evil Dead references, including battling teensy creatures like in Army of Darkness.

So no gimmick weapons, no bouncing soul cube? No slow down time? No grabber gun? I would have liked it more if the grabber gun had charge, because it felt very uber.

What about chainsaw guns like in Gears of War?

Should there be real weapons like a few have already suggested? Would that be seen as Call Of Doom?

[Cjwright79]

I'll second the Grenade Launcher. Best weapon in Quake.

[myk]

geo said:
I never once found any Evil Dead reference beyond the comic.

It's Evil Dead II, specifically.

Romero confirmed the chainsaw and the super shotgun are Evil Dead II references, being the weapons Ash uses. The lost soul is much like that laughing flying skull that pops up at the start of the movie. The movie also mentions seas of blood at the start, which bring to mind the blood flats in DOOM. The undead-like demonic possession in DOOM is much like the possession that takes place in the movie, as well.

[phi108]

A good distance shotgun that can be fired left-handed while using other guns, and fired at the same time as the weaker rapid-fire guns and pistols.

(oops, I just described the mechanic of the winchester shotgun in my mod...)

And of course, some cool melee weapon, and a cooler higher powered melee weapon. The chainsaw just seems dull now (HERESY!!).

Overall, good weapon animations and sounds, making the weapons feel appropriately powerful.

[Quasar]

We'll probably be lucky if there's anything "DOOM" about Doom 4 past the title screen.

[Gez]

I don't know. They've just ported Ultimate Doom to the iPhone and have contracted Nerve to get them to make a new Doom 2 IWAD for the XBLA port. The elements of classic Doom gameplay are probably quite fresh in their minds.

[kristus]

There better not be regen health.

[geo]

A chainsaw and a shotgun are in a lot more movies other than Evil Dead II, but the creators can be inspired by whatever they want.

DOOM 3 had lava and not many other liquids; would anyone want to see lakes of blood you can swim in or lakes of blood that you walk in and it damages you? The same think for nukage, slime and sewage.

Should it be like old school where you walk in and on, or should it be more modern where you can swim in it?

What about running waves of Zombies like Left For Dead? There's more fear with something charging toward you instead of slowly stumbling forward.

[Xtroose]

Since the release of Doom 3, I lost all hope in the DOOM franchise. They just followed all the new FPS "standards". Carmack developed a great engine, but it was not put to good use. To me it seemed like they've put more effort in the creation of cutscenes, terminals, PDA interface etc. It undoubtedly made the environment more immersive, but on the flip side it made the gameplay slow and boring.

I would definitely like to see the original Doom weaponry, nicely balanced, with fast reloading, if any. Quad-barreled shotgun and grenade launcher? Hell yeah! There should also be no falling damage and the marine should run at 80 Mph. The monsters should be modeled after the originals (e.g. this), the levels should be far less linear, more open with lots of accessible outdoor areas and generally more innovative map design, they should thoroughly study the E1 architecture.

But it will sadly never happen, because they are basically just recycling a name that had a huge impact on gaming. The original was ridiculous in many aspects, but it worked well. It is the essence of Doom. If this is not included in Doom 4, then it will just be another run-of-the-mill first person shooter.

Just noticed new posts.

I would like to see walkable lava, resulting in you bursting in flames, if you stand on it without protection. Nukage, slime, blood and water could be swimmable, but there should also be a point in making them this way, for example submerged pathways, hidden powerups etc. There should definitely be charging zombies too - AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!.

[myk]

geo said:
A chainsaw and a shotgun are in a lot more movies other than Evil Dead II, but the creators can be inspired by whatever they want.

Yeah, although the chainsaw gained a lot of popularity in games from DOOM (which got it from Evil Dead II.) DOOM also got the regular shotgun from a movie; Aliens. Remember the scene where Hicks explains he carries a shotgun for close encounters? So, essentially, in DOOM the marine's main weapon is the shotgun used by the male protagonist in Aliens and the main weapon in DOOM II is the shotgun used by the Evil Dead II protagonist.

[Mr. Freeze]

Xtroose said:

waaahhh

I am extremely glad you don't design games.

Games change all the time, and DooM is no exception. Why obsess over the past when the future can bring anything? The mods we create with the original games serve the 80-MPH gameplay purpose, and not everyone hated the slower gameplay of DooM III (a huge firefight would probably cripple the framerate anyway).

Also, I find it very funny that you say this:

But it will sadly never happen, because they are basically just recycling a name that had a huge impact on gaming.

While a few sentences ago, you essentially said "DOOM 4 SHOULD BE EPISODE 1 WITH BETTER GRAPHICS" THAT is recycling.

DooM 4 will be whatever id wants it to be. Refusing to accept that...is like pounding your fists on the ground and throwing a temper tantrum. No one is FORCING you to play the damn games, you know.

[kristus]

myk said:

...the super shotgun are Evil Dead II reference...

Though, most of the time, he doesn't carry a DB shotty. But a single barrel.

[geo]

It is a single barreled rifle, a boomstick in Evil Dead isn't it? Oh and as for the shotgun in the Alien's movie, while the game was originally set to be an Aliens game (like Metroid), there have been shotguns in plenty of other games. FPS shotguns, side scrolling shotguns, plenty of shotguns.

I feel that Borderlands is a good mold for a DOOM game. Being in the badlands with random weapons (100,000 in all), with nothing but hostiles is a great mold. DOOM is a game set on a badland planet with only hostiles, and with Bethesda's workmanship and high customizability, they could pull it off for better or worse.

Should iD software go the Capcom route and make a new old school DOOM game? Capcom had success with the old school Megaman. If iD went the old school route, I can't imagine them making a profit from a new 32 level game with new enemies and weapons when there are things like Skulltag out there for free.

[HeXploiT]

I want in Doom IV exactly what I wanted in Doom III, a rebiuld of the original Doom. Same maps, same monsters & same guns.
The maps in the original Doom games were actually huge.
It just so happens you could move very fast especially when running which made it possible to get through the maps so quickly.
The levels & atmosphere were amazing in the original and I'm still eager to relive it. This includes all the original doom games as they were so similar.

[kristus]

So play Doom1 then.

[Xtroose]

Oops, I think I hit a nerve there.

I am quite aware that games change all the time, they should be, it's a good thing. Where would the world be now, if there was no progress. But I do believe that if you call something Doom, you would expect the result to be similar to the original.

I never even mentioned wanting an Episode 1 remake, I would just like to see such creative layouts instead of boring hospital-like corridors. It would ba like a dream to me, if game designers would put more thought into level design in general, rather than try to develop another gimmick to hide the game's flaws.

I played Wolfenstein 3D prior to Doom, and when I first saw the layouts introduced in E1, I was surprised by the amazing advance in level design. There were windows, height variation, lighting, non orthogonal walls. I would like to see this kind of a radical design change. Just take a look at the modern architecture and industrial design and you will see more than just corridors and straight lines. I see modern FPS level design as corridor mazes similar to Wolf 3D, but way more linear, with better graphics, lighting and cutscenes. They are basically turning into tech demos, or even movies. As someone once said: "I want to play video games, not video games."

I completely understand that some people like slow gameplay, and this is OK. It would be boring to live in a world where everybody likes the same things. I happen to like fast paced games, that is why I still play Doom after more than 16 years since its release. I am glad that nothing can take the originals away.

Of course Doom 4 will be what id wants it to be - I never denied this. But the title of this thread is: "Pondering what people want for DOOM 4", so I just stated what I would like to see.

And if I were to design a game, I'd try to create something original - not the next generic FPS or a MMORPG.

[myk]

kristus said:
Though, most of the time, he doesn't carry a DB shotty. But a single barrel.

Yeah, good catch. Now that you mention it, I see a pic of him with a pump action gun. This makes the choice of the regular shotgun as a central weapon for DOOM even more obvious, considering the role it plays in both movies. The SSG is the weapon he uses in Army of Darkness, that was the Evil Dead movie released in early '93.

geo said:
Oh and as for the shotgun in the Alien's movie, while the game was originally set to be an Aliens game (like Metroid), there have been shotguns in plenty of other games. FPS shotguns, side scrolling shotguns, plenty of shotguns.

So? Were we talking about a similarity without any evidence of a connection, you'd have a point, but the id guys made the two movie influences quite explicit. The character in DOOM isn't a marine with a shotgun by coincidence; he's essentially modeled after Ash and Hicks. It's not the only reason why they'd want to use shotguns, but a big one. And the chaingun as a hand weapon, already present in Wolfenstein, may well have been inspired by Predator (from '87.) Curiously, the dude that holds the chaingun in Predator (portrayed by Jesse Ventura) is bald, like the heavy weapon dudes in DOOM II.

[geo]

I heard somewhere the original chaingun / gattling gun was made by General Electric.

So I am gathering from this conversation... people want DOOM IV to be more like DOOM I, if not exactly the same with better graphics. However, involve modern weapons that are not gimmicky and include a grenade launcher.

[th3malleus]

DOOM was popular for it's influence and originality, People play it today because it was fun. The solid mechanics and balanced game-play made it fun in combat, while wondering corridors, or solving the odd puzzle. The thing that made it mesh together though was a very limited plot, the three or four end-screens were pretty much all you had, so when playing you made your own assumptions and background. At least that's how I interpret it.

With that out of the way DOOM 4 should start with a limited explanation, no background, no cut-scene, no intro just you in a door-way with a pistol. As the game progresses build suspense through ambient sound if necessary, introducing a new monster should be a hair-raising experience from the first whimpering zombie to the last hellish cyberdemon. Setting it years after DOOM 3 (Or forgetting about DOOM 3 all together.) and having grander, more complex and open-ended architecture would allow for more player freedom and battle variation. Monsters should look similar to the DOOM originals but obviously more detailed and maybe more intimidating. Weapons should be the same for the most part, maybe more modernized. Upgrades would be nice, like you don't just get a flashlight for your shotgun, you need to get some duct-tape and a spare flashlight. Which leads to lighting, less darkness more blinding maybe, research facilities have backup generators and blindingly white lights to stop the spread of anything photosensitive. Slight environmental damage, chipped walls etc, make windows bust out then have emergency shutters clatter over them. In general id should play through the Half-life series to get a better idea of how good game-mechanic progression should work.

Just my opinion.

[DoomUK]

kristus said:

Though, most of the time, he doesn't carry a DB shotty. But a single barrel.

Only in the original Evil Dead (I). Both Evil Dead II and Evil Dead III had the double barrel.

Yes, I've watched those movies too many times :p

[geo]

I watched Evil Dead II for the first time last Halloween on an old VHS. It was very cartoonish, and it was like what DOOM III was for DOOM. A reboot / remake even though Evil Dead was the second in the series :-)

[kristus]

DoomUK said:

Only in the original Evil Dead (I). Both Evil Dead II and Evil Dead III had the double barrel.

Yes, I've watched those movies too many times :p

In the ending scene of AoD he got the Single barrel again though. The theatrical release ending that is.

[DoomUK]

kristus said:

In the ending scene of AoD he got the Single barrel again though. The theatrical release ending that is.

This scene?

I think that's a rifle. Not a shotgun.

[kristus]

Maybe it is. I thought it was the same or a similar shotgun to what the Terminator had in T2 when he was riding the MC.

[myk]

Talking about the Terminator series:

Does anyone know of other "plasma rifle" mentions in science fiction? Most (or all?) mentions in games are newer than DOOM. I wouldn't be surprised if the id guys had The Terminator in mind when they named the sixth weapon. The name is plasma gun when you pick it up, but the help screen says plasma rifle, as in the movie.