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Dash

Are multi-sprite monsters possible?

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Hi, I've been curious about this for ages now. I am wondering if it is possible to create a monster or enemy that uses more than one sprite synced together so it moves fluidly. I understand much programming would be involved, and perhaps the "monster" might actually have to be several monsters synced to move in unison.

Multi-sprite bosses were very common in the days of SNES and Sega Genesis, as shown rather stunningly here, in the game Gunstar Heroes.

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Not really, no.

You might be able to spawn multiple objects, each with a different sprite, and control each of those objects with an ACS script so that they move together.

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fraggle said:

Not really, no.

You might be able to spawn multiple objects, each with a different sprite, and control each of those objects with an ACS script so that they move together.


Okay thanks. Not quite sure what ACS is but I think I'll hold off until I get more experienced.

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One thing that might work is the equivalent of patches for sprites. For example, you could add weapon and item patches to a base player sprite, showing the current weapon, backpack, armor type, power-ups, and so on, without having to make a whole new sprite set for each change.

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myk said:

One thing that might work is the equivalent of patches for sprites. For example, you could add weapon and item patches to a base player sprite, showing the current weapon, backpack, armor type, power-ups, and so on, without having to make a whole new sprite set for each change.


Hmm...interesting

But please explain more, I'm sort of confused

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Many of DOOM's wall textures are essentially one graphic (patch) placed on top of another. So, for example, you can use the same switch graphic on two different wall backgrounds, getting two textures you can use in different places.

One could use the same principle for sprites. You'd have, for example, a smaller backpack sprite which is then drawn on top of the base player sprite whenever the player has a backpack.

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Dash said:

Okay thanks. Not quite sure what ACS is but I think I'll hold off until I get more experienced.

Action Code Script is a specialized language created by Raven Software for Hexen. Randy Heit adopted it in ZDoom where it can be used with any of the supported games, not just Hexen. In ZDoom, it has also been greatly enhanced with a ton of new functions.

Other than ZDoom, GZDoom and Skulltag, it is also supported by Vavoom. Support for it is planned in Eternity, but it's not in a usable state for the moment. Otherwise, it is only found in Hexen and Hexen ports.

I think there is a multisprite monster in this mod.

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I'm pretty sure Chibi Rebellion for ZDoom has multi sprite enemies, synced through ACS. And there is one big boss monster somewhere that is a multi-part monster. I don't know if anything will be as impressive as that video, though.
EDIT: Oh, that's it enjay, the Harbinger.

And you can make all kinds of combinations of patches into one sprite using ZDoom's TEXTURES lump, without having a ton of duplicate sprites that are slightly different. It works similar to vanilla texturex, but for sprites too.

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Enjay said:

Download this file and load it in Zdoom then warp to map02.

It conatains some minor DECORATE errors and I don't think it was ever properly finished but no-one can deny the true awesomeness of the Harbringer by LilWhiteMouse.

http://files.drdteam.org/index.php/files/get/f4tyDZkwjs/harbringer.zip


Gee, I did so but it's just showing me the normal level, and all I'm getting is just DOOM 1. A little help?

EDIT: I tried downloading Chibi Rebellion, but I gt a bnch of small WADs instead of one big one, and they all just take me to DOOM 1. Help!

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Enjay said:

Download this file and load it in Zdoom then warp to map02.

It conatains some minor DECORATE errors and I don't think it was ever properly finished but no-one can deny the true awesomeness of the Harbringer by LilWhiteMouse.

http://files.drdteam.org/index.php/files/get/f4tyDZkwjs/harbringer.zip


That.... is something.

Dash said:

Gee, I did so but it's just showing me the normal level, and all I'm getting is just DOOM 1. A little help?

EDIT: I tried downloading Chibi Rebellion, but I gt a bnch of small WADs instead of one big one, and they all just take me to DOOM 1. Help!


Then load doom2.wad as your iwad instead of doom.wad.

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Creaphis said:

Then load doom2.wad as your iwad instead of doom.wad.


FFFFFFFUUUUUUU-

Same problem

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Enjay said:

warp to map02.


How do I warp? Also, I've beaten level 01 (MAP01?) and gotten manually to map02. Seems just like on the normal DOOM game *sigh*

Only did so on DOOM.WAD not on DOOM2.WAD, but I presume the results are the same, and that this "warping" you speak of is the proper way to get there.

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Beating e1m1 on doom.wad will bring you to e1m2, NOT to map02 (this is important). Beating map01 on doom2.wad, WILL, however, bring you to map02. So, just playing through map01 would have worked, actually.

Alternate methods of reaching map02 in ZDoom:

-At any time in-game, type "idclev02".
-Open the console (by pressing "~") and type "map map02", then hit enter.
-Use the command line to start ZDoom, and include either "-warp 2" or "+map map02" in it.
-Use one of many front-end utilities to select map02 as your desired destination.

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myk said:

Many of DOOM's wall textures are essentially one graphic (patch) placed on top of another. So, for example, you can use the same switch graphic on two different wall backgrounds, getting two textures you can use in different places.

One could use the same principle for sprites. You'd have, for example, a smaller backpack sprite which is then drawn on top of the base player sprite whenever the player has a backpack.


I totally didn't know you could patch sprites too. Interesting...

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Thanks a bunch for that. I see the Harbringer and wow, he's tough! The only problem is, his sprites also appear to be "blitted" over the top half of the screen, as if they're just floating there...however, he still functions just fine, even if he is nigh-impossible to beat.

I just wonder what's up with those weird sprite glitches...here, look:

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StupidBunny said:
I totally didn't know you could patch sprites too. Interesting...

Well, I was speaking in principle. Following what phi108 says, you can, in ZDoom.

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Dash said:

The only problem is, his sprites also appear to be "blitted" over the top half of the screen, as if they're just floating there...


Those are the health indicators for his various body parts. You can see in the distance that the boss is clearly assembled properly.

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Creaphis said:

Those are the health indicators for his various body parts. You can see in the distance that the boss is clearly assembled properly.


Wow, I feel stupid. Sorry about that.

Well anyways, I've beaten the Harbringer and look forward to playing more multi-sprite DOOM mods. I just wish Chibi Rebellion worked. Perhaps the same MAP02 trick will work?

I can tell that making enemies out of multiple sprites, let alone anything worthwhile, is gonna take a helluva lot of practice with DECORATE and the like. Do any of you guys know of some good tutorials for DECORATE, lumps and all that ACS jazz? I'd really appreciate it ^_^

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scalliano said:

Another wad with multi-sprite enemies is CIF3. It's a jokewad, but it's class.


This looks quite epic...but when I play it the colors are all messed up and weird-looking. In case it means something I'm using ZDoom 2.4.0 but I'm not sure that should be a problem.

Also, on the first cutscene the text where you're talking to "some guy" is possibly half-invisible (as if it's cut off somewhat) and I find that no button or key at all will make it progress, despite there being a "more" arrow at the bottom of the text box.

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Dash said:

Do any of you guys know of some good tutorials for DECORATE, lumps and all that ACS jazz?


Here you can find some info about various lumps. To work with them, you will need a lump editor. The most popular are XWE and SLumpEd.

It is very hard to write a good DECORATE tutorial, because there are just so many things you can do with it. HotWax once posted a detailed DECORATE tutorial on the ZDoom forums. In that post he explained how to create a new monster. Once you are familiar with that, you will be able to understand the basics of DECORATE coding. From then on, I recommend you look at the Realm667 Beastiary and study the custom monsters. You can find more about DECORATE here, on the ZDoom Wiki.

ACS scripting is very well explained on the ZDoom Wiki. You can find a list of tutorials here. When you are familiar with the basics, you should take a look at some of your favourite PWADs and study their scripts. This way you will learn a lot.

Here are some useful ZDoom tutorials. Most of these are a bit outdated, but they still work.

If you have a problem and you didn't find an answer on the Zdoom Wiki, or the ZDoom forums search didn't find anything, ask about it on the ZDoom forums, where you are most likely to get a quick reply.

Have fun and remember the ZDoom Wiki is your friend.

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Xtroose said:

Here you can find some info about various lumps. To work with them, you will need a lump editor. The most popular are XWE and SLumpEd.

It is very hard to write a good DECORATE tutorial, because there are just so many things you can do with it. HotWax once posted a detailed DECORATE tutorial on the ZDoom forums. In that post he explained how to create a new monster. Once you are familiar with that, you will be able to understand the basics of DECORATE coding. From then on, I recommend you look at the Realm667 Beastiary and study the custom monsters. You can find more about DECORATE here, on the ZDoom Wiki.

ACS scripting is very well explained on the ZDoom Wiki. You can find a list of tutorials here. When you are familiar with the basics, you should take a look at some of your favourite PWADs and study their scripts. This way you will learn a lot.

Here are some useful ZDoom tutorials. Most of these are a bit outdated, but they still work.

If you have a problem and you didn't find an answer on the Zdoom Wiki, or the ZDoom forums search didn't find anything, ask about it on the ZDoom forums, where you are most likely to get a quick reply.

Have fun and remember the ZDoom Wiki is your friend.


Thanks a bunch, I will look at those. I also want to make it so when you kill a monster it spawns gibs that fly off in all directions (think Rise of the Triad's "ludicrous gibs") and I'm sure that's possible.

But on the subject of CIF3, here is a screenshot of what's going on...the colors are bad and I can't get past this cutscene...

Just look at what happened to the Doomguy's face! It's much, MUCH worse when you use The Ultimate DOOM (DOOM.WAD) as the IWAD...ALL the colors are screwed-up.

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To get past the cutscene, go to options, then customize controls, then scroll to the very bottom and take a good look at what's displayed.

For the status bar, go in fullscreen mode. The mod features its own ACS-fueled status bar.

That guy's suit is funky, but the rest is okay.

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That guy's suit is meant to be funky.

Also, I would recommend using an earlier version of ZDoom as some of CIF3's functions have been broken in more recent versions, not least of all the fact that the final boss doesn't appear when he should.

Just so you know...

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Gez said:

To get past the cutscene, go to options, then customize controls, then scroll to the very bottom and take a good look at what's displayed.

For the status bar, go in fullscreen mode. The mod features its own ACS-fueled status bar.

That guy's suit is funky, but the rest is okay.


Yeah thanks, but NOW an annoying message tells me to switch "screenblocks" to 11 and it'll go away! Grrrr...as far as I know screenblocks are the size of the screen, and it only goes up to 9 or 10, at least on my machine.

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No. Screenblocks go up to 12 even if you play in 320x200.

Status bar is 10. Full screen HUD is 11. Full screen no HUD is 12. Anything under 9 features the status bar and frames the view window with a border.

Just type "screenblocks" in the console and it'll tell you which value it is set to currently. You'll see that you can go up to 12.

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