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TimeOfDeath

SLUT - a true story

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Download: SLUT - 1 map + demos (ZDoom 2.4.1)

CHECK THIS PAGE for a funny gameplay + commentary video that two guys made for the original Half-Life Decay version that this map is based off of. The video is Mission Three.

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Warning - contains a sprite of a nude woman.

SLUT is a remake of the mission "Surface Call"
from Half-Life Decay (extra coop/single-player
missions that come with the PS2 version of Half-
Life). I built the map by loading the Half-Life
mission on my tv, counting floor tiles and
estimating floor/ceiling heights, and using only
IWAD textures/flats to try to mimic the Half-Life
textures/flats. All of the rooms that have square
tile floors are almost exactly built to scale as
the rooms in Half-Life. The outdoor areas and
the pink factory were estimated.

Gameplay is almost identical to the Half-Life
Decay mission. The Siren acts as a scientist, but
the dialog is different.
Monster placement is identical to the Half-Life
mission, except the cacos were added just for
fun. There are only two enemies in the Half-Life
mission. The monsters you face and the weapon
you use depend on the skill setting you choose.

This map requires jumping and was intended to be
played without crouching and no bfg-aiming.

Also, keep in mind that you can break crates with
your crowbar in Half-Life to reveal health and
ammo...





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Interesting stuff and lol level. I like how the lost souls get trippled with those eye rock thingies. And was surprised you can move and jump on top of pain elementals (assumed the game would think you were in the air instead of treating their head like ground). I got 12:30 bfg route with saves but only 13:50ish (and missed 1 or more cacos I think) on the actual run which you don't have to watch:
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/20760689/slut-bfg-01-1350-almostMax-ggg-zd241.lmp

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Thanks for the demo :) your route is faster. lol @ almost killing her at the end - what a bitch...

I forgot to mention that the lost souls part was different from the Half-Life version. In HL, you have to break two pieces of wood (the stationary cyber) that are blocking the mining car (pain elemental) from driving on the rail and into some explosive barrels (the masterminds) so you can get to the next area. There isn't a horde of monsters after the explosive barrels (masterminds), I just thought that'd be fun or something.

Your thing_thrust idea for the moving platforms was perfect - I only had to use thing_thrust once with the nogravity + floating things, and they don't stop moving.

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I thought this was good (11:36) then looked and saw it said 96% kills sigh.
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/20761442/slut-01-1136-96_-ggg.lmp
Isn't there a way to speed up/slow down demos in zdoom, or look at the automap with iddt while watching?

Didn't know you could set a monster as nogravity (just thought sectors had that option). If you press the first moving platform switch twice, the elementals break apart into 2 chunks for me, like they bump into eachother and stop or something. Also the railroad by the barrels has lava damage if unintentional, not that it matters much. Cybers are a lot easier when you see their rocket trails.. that's one of the hardest things about them in boom; their brown rockets tend to blend with brown backgrounds.

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Thanks for your song, Creaphis!

Nice demo, mork. The cacos are annoying if both sets are flying around (feel free to edit the map and change whatever you want). I tried killing the first set before releasing the second set in this 11:24 demo. I'm not sure how to speed up/slow down zdoom demos or how to turn on iddt (it'd be nice if the monsters were a different colour on the automap like in prboom).

For the nograv monsters I just used whacked, but I assume you could do that with decorate or something (I'm a total newbie at that and complex scripting). The damaging rail was intentional - it doesn't damage in the half-life decay mission, but the rails damage in the original half-life, so I thought I'd make the fatter rail damage just for kicks. I guess I didn't notice the difference with the rocket trails - I've always had them turned off (and decals turned off) because I thought it would help reduce lag or something.

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TimeOfDeath said:
I've always had them turned off (and decals turned off) because I thought it would help reduce lag or something.

Yeah, I have both off, too. In Quake, where they originally appeared, trails make more sense because rockets are faster.

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Watching their first video for mission 8 made me wonder if all console gamers are as dumb as they are.

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heh, the colour puzzle. I like the coop puzzles they have in that game, and it's cool that you can still beat them in single player (just press 'select' to play as the other player). I was going to try to remake that mission next with projectiles as the light beams, but haven't decided how to script the puzzle properly.

ggg - I got the idea of jumping from your demo :)

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Despite your meticulous tile-counting, the original map (which I just saw through the LP you linked to) looks much smaller overall. I guess the Doomguy's diminutive stature is to blame.

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The DOOM marine isn't small, although the tiles in the two games may represent different dimensions. In DOOM a 64-unit tile is like 6 feet across.

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True enough, but that's just one side of the see-saw. If all visual cues as to the size of the gameworld, aside from the player's view height, were made equal (eg. the spacing of repetitions in texture, the size of familiar objects, image resolution, etc.) between both the original map and ToD's re-imagining, either the Doomguy would become a midget or the female, middle-aged protagonists of Decay would be giants. This would be most easily accomplished by using the exact same art assets in both versions of the map.

Actually, now that I've already written the above response, and even started it with "true enough," I want to say, instead, that your judgement that 64 units represents 6 feet isn't really true enough at all (even though I made the exact same judgement while trying to calculate the Doomguy's running speed recently). The fact of the matter is, while such an equivalence makes perfect rational sense, I constantly feel myself rubbing up against its intuitive absurdity. If you were to build, say, a Doom-style teleport pad in real life, at the same exact size as which you naturally perceive it to be in the game, how big would you make it? Mine would be roughly two feet across - perhaps three, at the absolute most. Even if Doom's art is supposed to represent 64 units as 6 feet, or two meters, or what have you, on some conceptual level, it doesn't pull it off. The Doomguy is a midget.

Yes, I am going as far as to say that one's intuitive sense of scale should take precedence over one's rational sense. Visual perception occupies fully half of your brain. The calculations involved are immensely complicated. Do you really think some that some insignificant corpuscle of neurons capable of abstract reasoning and linguistic expression can do a better job?

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BeenJammin - Cool. Did you watch the mission 3 video on this page?

Creaphis - I agree with you that the half-life level looks much smaller. When I started building the remake, I had to decide whether to make one floor tile = 64x64 or 128x128. I thought the 64x64 size would have been much closer to the half-life size, but I chose 128x128 because the doom marine runs much faster and I wanted to use cyberdemons (so it'd be easier to fight them in bigger rooms).

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Maybe since you're a mouser you can kill cybers even faster like the first 3 I killed here?:
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/20855950/slut-01-stupid-ggg.lmp
(shoot bfg twice after first rocket wave)
It seems too risky for me to do it reliably but maybe you can curve around easier and do it with greater probability.
I like jumping to see the diagonal perspective of the starting female sprite then look back and forth like she's crazy and talking to imaginary people. Maybe because I have no life.
My route was gonna be leave that last group of indoor cybers, then later kill them while the cacos infight to save time but now might not feel like doing it.



edit: I did it on the first 5 cybers this time (the rest is a failed run, not worth watching):
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/20871222/slut-01-fast5cybers-ggg.lmp
It works better when your 1st bfg blast hits them close to a wall. That way your 2nd bfg blast might miss the cyber but at least hits the wall for the final bfg blow without having to wait to dodge the next series of 3 rockets.

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Creaphis said:
If you were to build, say, a Doom-style teleport pad in real life, at the same exact size as which you naturally perceive it to be in the game, how big would you make it? Mine would be roughly two feet across - perhaps three, at the absolute most. Even if Doom's art is supposed to represent 64 units as 6 feet, or two meters, or what have you, on some conceptual level, it doesn't pull it off. The Doomguy is a midget.

An imp looks about as tall as the player if you get close to it and a baron of hell looks taller, with its horns going off the screen. You seem to be basing your assessment on something in the textures, or maybe also the pick-up items, rather than the size of the animated sprites and the relative dimensions between them and map structures or the view height and field. The texture graphics and pick-up items aren't necessarily consistent with the sprites and area dimensions; they are over-sized to be identifiable and detailed enough in the low-resolution world. I don't think that there's an intuitive size for the stuff in the game, and what conclusions you reach may depend on what aspects you highlight when looking at it, just like reading a text is modified by what a person has experienced or read beforehand.

Look at the columns at the start of E1M1. Do they really seem to be one and a half feet across to you?

Also, keep in mind the 56 units of height need to be multiplied by 1.2 because of the pixel stretching. This makes the marine 6.3 feet tall.

This talk of dimensions got me thinking that the player can normally run over a height of 2.7 feet. This means that, essentially, the marine can jump when he has to and it makes the jumping feature in source ports quite Olympic. A way to implement it more sensibly would have been to decrease what the player character can walk over to something like 16 units and make a jump allow him to go over 32 units.

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Something to remember about the DoomGuy's midgety stature or not is that the camera isn't set at eye height, but somewhere on his chest.

The viewheight is 41 units from the feet. If you look at the sprite and check the middle of the helmet's visor, it's 51 units from the feet -- ten more.

To compare, here's the player sprite. On the left, normal size. On the right, shrunken so that the middle of his visor is at his camera height. On the middle, two vertical lines that top at 41 and 51 pixels, respectively.


When you play, you are the midget that's just 80% of everybody else's size. When you're seen, or in chase-cam for ports that have that, you're normal sized.

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Yeah, the view height is lower than one might expect, although I didn't notice that until someone pointed it out from seeing the source code, so it's hard to say whether that might be contributing to the midget impression. In retrospect, I think it makes sense because when we walk around we tend to look down more than up to avoid hazards, or, in the game, to spot items to pick up, hence it's sensible to show more of the floor, especially if you can't move the view up and down. The eye itself also seems to be better suited for looking down (75°) than up (60°).

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myk said:

In Quake, where they originally appeared, trails make more sense because rockets are faster.


Actually, trails originally appeared in Heretic. ;)

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myk said:

An imp looks about as tall as the player if you get close to it and a baron of hell looks taller, with its horns going off the screen. You seem to be basing your assessment on something in the textures, or maybe also the pick-up items, rather than the size of the animated sprites and the relative dimensions between them and map structures or the view height and field. The texture graphics and pick-up items aren't necessarily consistent with the sprites and area dimensions; they are over-sized to be identifiable and detailed enough in the low-resolution world. I don't think that there's an intuitive size for the stuff in the game, and what conclusions you reach may depend on what aspects you highlight when looking at it, just like reading a text is modified by what a person has experienced or read beforehand.


Again, it's not so much that I'm consciously, rationally choosing some set of elements of the game's art to make my assessment of size. It's that I'm looking at the gameworld naturally, holistically, and letting the various visual cues do their work. (You're right that the visual cues given by the textures are largely to blame.) There is certainly an "intuitive size" to the game world, as the brain demands to make sense of patterns and disparate information, but different people may arrive at different senses of scale. The result, for me, is the unavoidable impression that 64 units = ~3 feet, and that the Doomguy is a midget. The Doomguy is a tiny man who runs around shooting tiny monsters, lest the forces of tiny Hell take over the tiny, tiny world.

This actually damage Doom's image in my mind, at all. I just think it's funny.

myk said:

Look at the columns at the start of E1M1. Do they really seem to be one and a half feet across to you?


More like fifteen inches.

myk said:

Also, keep in mind the 56 units of height need to be multiplied by 1.2 because of the pixel stretching. This makes the marine 6.3 feet tall.


This means that I should intuitively feel the Doomguy to be 1.2 times taller than I would feel otherwise. Maybe I do, but it's not obvious.

myk said:

This talk of dimensions got me thinking that the player can normally run over a height of 2.7 feet.


Impressive, isn't it? In fact, it's rather ridiculous that any staircases would require such olympic-quality thighs. Thus, our familiarity with real stairs makes the stairs in Doom into another important visual cue. I'm left with the sense that the tallest stairs in Doom are around 1.5 feet tall, because real stairs don't get much bigger than that.

Related to the above, haven't you ever noticed how difficult it is to make a table in Doom? By the time the Doomguy isn't running up onto it anymore, and more importantly, by the time it seems high enough to be a table, it's almost at the Doomguy's eye level.

Gez said:

Something to remember about the DoomGuy's midgety stature or not is that the camera isn't set at eye height, but somewhere on his chest.


This contributes to the midget impression, but does not fully account for it.

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Creaphis said:
I'm left with the sense that the tallest stairs in Doom are around 1.5 feet tall, because real stairs don't get much bigger than that.

The 16 unit stairs are 1.8 feet high in relation to the player sprite. The more "realistic" heights would be 8 or 4 units, which are also used for stairs. Incidentally, the alpha levels use 8 units or less for stairs. The only exception I found is the starting staircase for the E3M3 WIP in v0.4, where 16 is used. That was changed to 8 units for v0.5, though, so they must have been rough placeholder steps. I gather that at first they were being more anal about these things but eventually thought, "who's going to notice? Let's make taller stars, as they require less lines and still look cool!"

By the time the Doomguy isn't running up onto it anymore, and more importantly, by the time it seems high enough to be a table, it's almost at the Doomguy's eye level.

Anything between 24 and 32 should work well enough, but the main reason tables suck in DOOM is because they are too solid, if you ask me.

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Cool bfg kills, ggg. I'm not very reliable with that either. It's a shame those cybers were waiting for you outside the building. :(

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Finally got around to checking this out. Really fun level. I should dig out my PS2 Half Life, though I have no one to play Decay with.

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