Two spideys in the same room

[40oz]

Dear Doomworld.

I've got a problem.

I'm making a map in Boom format, and as a trap to counter the player picking up a key, I want him to have to fight two spider masterminds at the same time. With the way the room is shaped, (in addition to it's piss awful aim) it is all too likely that they will infight. I don't want the player to be a pussy and sit and eat popcorn in a corner while they kill each other, I want him to have to deal with both at the same time.

Is there some kind of trick to get the spider demons to only target the player?

P.S. The spider demons enter the room via teleport ambush

I've noticed that if you damage a monster before any other monsters damage it, it won't pick fights with other monsters unless they damage it considerably. Is there some way I can get the player to 'accidentally' damage both of them before they teleport into the room?

[ArmouredBlood]

Shape and size of the room? possibility for existing and new architecture to block LoS (mostly between SMs)? Weapons available?

Something like a 384x384 triangular/pentagonal room with basically pillbox windows low to the floor with the SMs' floor raised a bit allows the player to have a small breathing space with the two spiders at adjacent edges. Close the door the player took to get in, open small entrances to the SMs and the player has to get through both SM rooms to get a switch that allows the player back out.

Just an idea.

[Creaphis]

40oz said:

I've noticed that if you damage a monster before any other monsters damage it, it won't pick fights with other monsters unless they damage it considerably.

Even if that were reliably the case, no there isn't a way to "accidentally" damage a spiderdemon in this way. It crossed my mind that you could force the player to shoot barrels out of his path, which could start a chain of barrel explosions which would ultimately reach the spideys... but they're immune to splash damage.

Either switch to ZDoom so that you can make spideys that don't infight, or redesign your map so that the two spideys can't hit each other, or leave it as it is - it's fun making spideys infight.

[40oz]

Creaphis said:

It crossed my mind that you could force the player to shoot barrels out of his path, which could start a chain of barrel explosions which would ultimately reach the spideys... but they're immune to splash damage.

I was thinking about something in this vein too. I didn't know they were immune to splash damage though.

I managed to figure out a possible solution. I raised the floor where the spider demons teleport in by 128 units. Now that the player is at a lower height, the spider demons' lines of fire don't intersect and don't hit each other. I have to test it to find out how it works.

[darkreaver]

This thread gave me an idea for the map I`m currently working on. Going to add it :P

[printz]

40oz said:

lines of fire don't intersect and don't hit each other. I have to test it to find out how it works.

The hitscan monsters autoaim like the player. They fire straight ahead but if their view detects a shootable, they'll hit the closest one seen (actually, encountered by the bullet traces). So even if you lift the Spiderdemons, the player will hide out of sight in the trench and the Spider's last shot will be horizontal, hitting its peers.

This is not a problem if you arrange the platforms in a stadium shape. You'll always be in their sight now, though. Give the player a cell weapon, to make the game fair.

[40oz]

printz said:

This is not a problem if you arrange the platforms in a stadium shape. You'll always be in their sight now, though. Give the player a cell weapon, to make the game fair.

I already did both of these.

[Patrick]

I know DeHacked has a flag that can disable infighting (this might be ZDoom only?) If Boom supports this, you could make a spidey that won't infight.

[esselfortium]

Patrick said:

I know DeHacked has a flag that can disable infighting (this might be ZDoom only?) If Boom supports this, you could make a spidey that won't infight.

I think this Dehacked flag (which is a global setting, not a per-monster one) actually is just to enable "monsters *always* infight with anything", and its default behavior of "infighting off" is just the standard vanilla 'controlled infighting' behavior.

[Ichor]

Instead of two spider masterminds appearing directly on either side of the player, how about both slightly in front or behind the player, in sort of a V formation?



This way, you'll still be in their sights, but they will not be in each other's crossfire.

Another possibility is a series of columns or barriers arranged in such a way where the spider masterminds cannot see each other, but either one can see you at some point.



Of course, these are crude drawings, but you get the general idea.

[Guest]

Ichor, these are really good ideas, especially the second one.

[Super Jamie]

Ichor said:

second drawing

This is rad.

[40oz]

The second one is eerily shaped almost identically like mine... except without the columns arranged in that fashion. I've yet to get them to infight so far.

[TimeOfDeath]

Another way could be to make them shoot a stream of projectiles instead of bullets with dehacked/whacked?

[printz]

The monsters can still see each other from angles.

[Jodwin]

Just remove the masterminds. They suck. :(

[40oz]

Go to hell.

[printz]

Or use Demolishers, who are protected from peer wrath.

[fraggle]

Similarly to the 'V' idea, you could also do the same thing with floor heights, by placing the player in a valley between two platforms with spider masterminds on, but with a wall between so that they can't see each other. Or the opposite, place two pits on either side of the player containing the spider masterminds so that the floor obscures their view.

[TimeOfDeath]

maybe you could use dehacked/whacked and replace a decoration with a spiderdemon that has the "shootable" flagged unchecked and the "counts towards kill %" flag unchecked? if you don't mind them staying alive (or maybe you could activate a crusher to kill them).

[printz]

Err, unshootable means invincible.