Linguica Posted March 1, 2010 In what is hopefully the start of a really weird trend, Jean-Paul LeBreton, the lead level designer of critically acclaimed FPS Bioshock 2, has, uh, remade a Bioshock level in Doom 2. He has also posted a Doom design analysis as a companion piece. 0 Share this post Link to post
Cjwright79 Posted March 1, 2010 His prose is a bit dense and nerdy to validate reading, but his headings are good: * Doom has a more varied bestiary than most modern FPSes I believe this is, sum total, Doom's greatest asset. Not just their variety but their quality of design. Hand-crafted no less. - * Doom was abstract in ways that empowered its level design Yes, it takes a reasonable length of time to craft a great level. Unlike Source engine games. 0 Share this post Link to post
Alter Posted March 1, 2010 Awesome read. One of reasons I do plan to make full-fledged FPSes on doom engine (read: gzdoom or EDGE) is that it's much easier to create new games with modified doom engines whereas it takes days to create a room in modern engines. This is quite far away though. I'm already attempting to create one (it runs standalone now but won't leave pre-alpha phase until Late 2010). I believe this is the future of doom modding. Whereas people will still create casual levels, many will try to do their own FPS games. Would love to see that happen. 0 Share this post Link to post
Gez Posted March 1, 2010 I had overlooked the thread because I assumed from the title this was the latest in the series of "let's rip stuff from recent games to try to recreate it in Doom, maybe with help from ACS and 3D floors". In reality, it's a much more interesting experiment (and more legitimate). The analysis is interesting as well. The points it makes about what elements of gameplay have been lost in newer games is, in my opinion, the reason why Classic Doom is still going rather strong after all these years (strong enough for Id to port it to the iPhone and the Xbox, and to commission a new nine-level episode from Nerve Software). You can't find such gameplay elsewhere. alterworldruler said:I believe this is the future of doom modding. Whereas people will still create casual levels, many will try to do their own FPS games. Would love to see that happen. It has already happened. See Urban Brawl or Harmony for example. 0 Share this post Link to post
Phml Posted March 1, 2010 Very good article, and great to see from someone who's a big name in the industry. 0 Share this post Link to post
esselfortium Posted March 1, 2010 I, like Gez, somewhat overlooked the map thread for a while, and only noticed a week or so ago that it was by the guy who actually made the original map. Now seeing that he was the lead level designer for Bioshock 2, that's even more awesome. Fantastic article; makes some really interesting points. I hope Jean-Paul LeBreton sticks around in the Doom community for a while :) 0 Share this post Link to post
Use Posted March 1, 2010 esselfortium said:I, like Gez, somewhat overlooked the map thread for a while, and only noticed a week or so ago that it was by the guy who actually made the original map. Now seeing that he was the lead level designer for Bioshock 2, that's even more awesome. Me too, I feel like a jrk now, since I also like Bioshock a lot. Also, JPL, Irrational looking for any more level designers? lol 0 Share this post Link to post
lupinx-Kassman Posted March 1, 2010 This is quite the overflow of awesome. 0 Share this post Link to post
TimeOfDeath Posted March 1, 2010 PROTIP: Actually reading threads helps to learn about a project. lol jk ;D Remaking levels from more modern games has been done many times. Unless you mean remakes built by the original level designers of more modern games, which is pretty cool. 0 Share this post Link to post
esselfortium Posted March 1, 2010 TimeOfDeath said:PROTIP: Actually reading threads helps to learn about a project. lol jk ;D I did, but I didn't see that he was also the original level's author until I went over the first post in it again with a fine-toothed comb. :P 0 Share this post Link to post
gggmork Posted March 1, 2010 Everything in the 'doom design analysis' is obvious to me and I agree with it. Its probably to be expected that someone with a career in modern games would be late to catch onto such concepts. Maybe since mario 64 or who knows when, 3d games have been cookie cutter clones of eachother. They could essentially all be titled '3D Game', then with subtitles for that particular clone (mario 64, crash bandicoot, resident evil etc etc). I guess when code gets complex like that, it has to be borrowed to be efficient so everyone uses the same basic 3d code/light effects/etc. There are occasional more surreal experiments, like katamari damawhatever/ mario galaxy/etc that uses more unique game rules/laws than trying to emulate reality. Games don't have to mimic reality. Hearts is fun and it just uses abstract cards etc. The technological advancement of representing realistic objects in an artificial 3d universe is scientifically interesting but games aren't necessarily fused with realism. Games are about strategy (tactic/countertactic/planning/etc)/using your brain/skill (inputting complex keys etc that requires practice/learning). For keyboard-only at least, doom really puts skill/brain in overdrive (which is fun imo) because almost every finger has a key to push, thus making input complex and difficult/fun to master. I wish I had more ability to make my own games easily. I might make a weird spidery creature that is just interesting/complex to control due to requiring intense concentration/skill. Like maybe it has 8 legs and you put your 8 fingers on asdf jkl; and each finger controls 1 leg somehow and you have to coordinate it in the right patterns or something. I basically like stuff that takes a lot of brain concentration and modern games are usually slow boring strolls through 3d worlds. 0 Share this post Link to post
wildweasel Posted March 1, 2010 "Go get stepped on by a Cyberdemon, would ya kindly?" 0 Share this post Link to post
esselfortium Posted March 1, 2010 gggmork said:Everything in the 'doom design analysis' is obvious to me and I agree with it. Its probably to be expected that someone with a career in modern games would be late to catch onto such concepts. gggmork said:I just felt like complaining about something 0 Share this post Link to post
TimeOfDeath Posted March 1, 2010 ggg, I bet you'd be a good piano player. :) 0 Share this post Link to post
gggmork Posted March 1, 2010 Nah, the black vs. white keys seems awkward/illogical and I don't want to learn the archaic, bloated, visually confusing notation that everyone else uses so I'll just complain about it instead. 0 Share this post Link to post
Phobus Posted March 1, 2010 I'm glad that was pointed out to me - not only was the accompianing article an interesting read, but the level was very fun to play and certainly reminded me of when I watched my brother playing Bioshock, though scaled to fit the game we all know and love. Very good stuff all in all, and the blue pallette really did add a unique touch. 0 Share this post Link to post
Belial Posted March 2, 2010 Doom feels more like 1st person Robotron than a modern FPS That's one of the most accurate and simple descriptions of Doom's gameplay I've seen in a long time. 0 Share this post Link to post
dew Posted March 2, 2010 that article is quite awesome - and it doesn't even touch the DM aspects of doom! there is virtually nothing that relates to doom multiplayer. 0 Share this post Link to post
Creaphis Posted March 2, 2010 Good article. gggmork said:Nah, the black vs. white keys seems awkward/illogical and I don't want to learn the archaic, bloated, visually confusing notation that everyone else uses so I'll just complain about it instead. Haha, it seems fine to me... 0 Share this post Link to post
GreyGhost Posted March 3, 2010 The companion piece is an interesting read. If it's not a dumb question - is there a reason why this thread isn't showing on the home page? Edit - Now I see it. 0 Share this post Link to post
Reisal Posted March 3, 2010 It's always good to see modern level designers popping into contribute to the oldschool games like Doom and Doom 2. 0 Share this post Link to post
BilboHicks Posted March 3, 2010 "Doom feels more like 1st person Robotron than a modern FPS" Fantastic stuff. 0 Share this post Link to post
Philnemba Posted March 3, 2010 Wow I didn't notice that this map was made by someone who helped make Bioshock 2 til I read the post O_o 0 Share this post Link to post
The Lag Posted March 4, 2010 He also happens to be the guy who designed the Bioshock map this map is based on... 0 Share this post Link to post
Shanoa Posted March 4, 2010 Philnemba said:Wow I didn't notice that this map was made by someone who helped make Bioshock 2 til I read the post O_o lol ditto 0 Share this post Link to post
eargosedown Posted March 4, 2010 Now, he should go make a doom 2 map for bioshock =) Dead Simple or Entryway should be simple enough. 0 Share this post Link to post
ArmouredBlood Posted March 4, 2010 eargosedown said:Now, he should go make a doom 2 map for bioshock =) Dead Simple or Entryway should be simple enough. Dead simple - walk into a room with 4 nitro splicers on pillars and 3 on the floor. F. Then walls lower and many, many machine gun turrets are revealed. Yeah ... 0 Share this post Link to post
Mechadon Posted March 4, 2010 Just got around to reading this article. Definitely an interesting and insightful read, and he hit many points about Doom's gameplay and other bits that I definitely agree with. Also, I had no idea this was the same guy who worked on Bioshock. Pretty awesome to see someone from the current game dev circle to come back to Doom and make some maps! Just hammers home how awesome Doom is :D 0 Share this post Link to post
DuckReconMajor Posted March 6, 2010 http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/05/bioshock-2-designer-recreates-rapture-s-arcadia-in-doom-ii.aspx 0 Share this post Link to post