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Csonicgo

BioShock 2's DLC is on the Disc

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BioShock 2's DLC is on the Disc . Say that to yourself. Then wonder why the VG Industry hasn't tanked yet.

Kokatu

from the article:

The way our engine and game structure works is that people need to have the exact same content for people to play together. One of the challenges with post launch content for MP is that it can split the player base, and we want to avoid that whenever possible. For this content, creating the DLC package the way we did allowed for us to not split the player base – so whether you purchase the new content or not, you can still play with your friends.


What does that mean in non-PR speak? if 2K were a burger joint, You would be charged for your second bite.

Don't buy into this.

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So, the DLC, instead of being released online in increments, is included right away on the game disk? Is it free to use, or does the owner need to pay for it first?

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He has to pay for it. he can see it, but he can't use it unless he pays for it. That's implied because it's... on the disk yet inaccessible-- why not just MAKE IT PART OF THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE?

aaaargh. 2K screws up again.

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LOL That must have resulted in some awesome conversations at meetings: "Yeah, the pirates will have no trouble, but there are enough suckers*cough* uh, customers who will pay for it!"

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What a crock of shit. Capcom pulled the exact same stunt with the versus mode DLC for Resident Evil 5. Do people actually fall for this stuff?

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From the kotaku article it sounded to me like it was done as a convenience for

-the devs- sounds like the DLC was integrated into the multiplayer aspect, which afaik is what the DLC is about - more stuff for multiplayer. This means they don't have to have code patches to bring in the dlc or have modules, which is actually a shame cause bioshock would be a cool game to mod for, minus the voice acting (me=not a voice actor). This also means they have a netcode that won't change unless they make an expansion, which they didn't do for the first one unless my sources of game info are severely lacking.

-the customers- you don't have to download anything other than get a key. Sure it's on the disk, and sure pirates will have hacked the dlc, but if it's for multiplayer only, why bother? Unless you steal the netcode (yeah right) or code your own (that's rather daunting, not to mention very trial/error-ish ...) and put it on a server, you can't really do much with it anyway. So just add $5 to the price of the game if you want EVERYTHING and forget about it. What is $5 now anyway? One meal at any fast-food restaurant? Seriously.

I had a real preachy paragraph but I think you've all seen it's like hundreds of times now.

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AgentSpork said:

What a crock of shit. Capcom pulled the exact same stunt with the versus mode DLC for Resident Evil 5.


Same thing happened with the DLC for Mega Man 10. People have already unlocked the weapons from the Special Stages and Bass mode using some hacks.

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The only justification I can think of for this is that said content was not properly bug-checked before the game's retail release, and the "key" provides not just the code to unlock the content, but also any last-minute bug fixes the content needs.

But then I think about how many times Fallout 3's expansions needed fixing due to fatal, game-crashing, save-corrupting errors...

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WildWeasel said:

The only justification I can think of for this is that said content was not properly bug-checked before the game's retail release, and the "key" provides not just the code to unlock the content, but also any last-minute bug fixes the content needs.

This sounds most likely, especially if what I've heard about how patch certification works on the 360 is true.

I've heard that the way patch certification works on the 360 is that the first patch is free, but any patch thereafter has a hefty price tag attached for the developer. Of course, if you release a patch as paid DLC you sidestep this issue. Microsoft supposedly implemented this practice to prevent "release now, patch later", but instead you get DLC that's on the disc and charging for patches. Naturally this doesn't apply if it's an official Microsoft game or you are a big publisher such as EA (see Halo 3 and Burnout Paradise). This is why you hardly ever see free content patches for 360 games.

I might be wrong about this however as I got most of this information second hand, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case. It could also just be plain old greed on Take2's part.

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So what's everyone's problem with this? As usual I don't get the alarmistic tone of such reports.

So I have a game and it's expansion pack on the same disk, I buy the game and then if I like I can buy the expansion pack without having to do anything other than getting a key.

Big deal.

I would've posted something along the same lines in the Ubisoft thread, but the degree of retardedness went throught the ceiling there before it got to the second page.

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Belial said:

So I have a game and it's expansion pack on the same disk, I buy the game and then if I like I can buy the expansion pack without having to do anything other than getting a key.

Here's your new car. The trunk is locked and we have the key, so you can't use it unless you buy the key from us. Note that it's illegal to try to force open the trunk or circumvent the lock in any way, however, if you like the car, you can buy the key from us.

Oh putting the DLC on the disk is legal, just it's closer to a dick move than anything else though.

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doom2day said:

Here's your new car. The trunk is locked and we have the key, so you can't use it unless you buy the key from us. Note that it's illegal to try to force open the trunk or circumvent the lock in any way, however, if you like the car, you can buy the key from us.

Crap analogy is crap. I've heard the car comparison enough times in piracy discussions. If you can't accept the idea of buying part of the data contained on the medium I guess you do have a problem.

I wonder what would Slican do if people started bitching that their software needs a tech support certificate key to unlock administrator mode.

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Belial said:

Crap analogy is crap. I've heard the car comparison enough times in piracy discussions. If you can't accept the idea of buying part of the data contained on the medium I guess you do have a problem.

I wonder what would Slican do if people started bitching that their software needs a tech support certificate key to unlock administrator mode.

When you pull content out of the game (putting the DLC on the disk when it comes out suggests that this happened) solely so you can jack up the price of the game is in my opinion, unethical and unfair to the consumer.
Now, if you take out the multiplayer version of a game, and lower the price by the cost of the DLC, that is fair and a smart way to utilize DLC that gets shipped with the game. Also, another smart way to use DLC is to quicken release times by releasing a functional (*cough* that truck game) game that is missing a few modes and releasing the missing modes as they are finished by the game team.

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doom2day said:

When you pull content out of the game (putting the DLC on the disk when it comes out suggests that this happened) solely so you can jack up the price of the game is in my opinion, unethical and unfair to the consumer.

Yet if it was released via internet a week later you wouldn't have enough reason to complain even if the same thing happened? Idle speculation.

Now, if you take out the multiplayer version of a game, and lower the price by the cost of the DLC, that is fair and a smart way to utilize DLC that gets shipped with the game. Also, another smart way to use DLC is to quicken release times by releasing a functional (*cough* that truck game) game that is missing a few modes and releasing the missing modes as they are finished by the game team.

Once again, how do you know what the intended price was and if it wasn't reduced because of the inclusion of the DLC on the disk?

Also, 'unethical', 'unfair', 'smart'? 'What makes money' trumps all those. Complaints and boycotts won't make any difference.

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belial, think about it for a second. Why would there be content on the disc (that a person pays for) that the person still has to pay for?
{{I DONT PAY TWICE FOR WHAT I ALREADY POSSESS.}}

I mean this isn't SHAREWARE we're talking about here! it's a ripoff!

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Csonicgo said:

belial, think about it for a second. Why would there be content on the disc (that a person pays for) that the person still has to pay for?

You don't pay for the piece of plastic, you pay for it's contents. If the disk contains two separate products I have no issue with paying for them separately.

According to your logic paying your broadband bill should allow you to download any and all software without paying for it separately, just because you've already covered the cost of the delivery media.

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The system makes a fair bit of sense to me as well, to be honest. You have the disk space, so you may as well use it. You don't want multiplayer games to cock up just because some people have DLC and others don't and this is a good method round it.

However, this DLC is now even easir to pirate (if I'm any judge anyway...) it does make me wonder if all the DRM stuff is worth it.

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Belial said:

According to your logic paying your broadband bill should allow you to download any and all software without paying for it separately, just because you've already covered the cost of the delivery media.


That doesn't make sense with his logic at all. When you buy broadband internet, you pay a fee based on the speed and bandwidth you want. You're not paying $60 and having to pay more on top of that, you choose how you want it.

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It's obvious that these are just features they had built into the game from day one, but someone (probably their shitty publisher) decided to deny the user access so they could squeeze some more money out of people who paid for the game. They're not even trying to hide it any more, Dragon Age was the same. Maybe Bioshock 3 will ask for your credit card number every time you pick up a new weapon.

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esselfortium said:

I've got to agree with Belial. This thread is pretty retarded.


Yeah, I really don't see any reason to get all-up-in-arms about it.

IF you want to hear a car analogy, however, remember that putting the DLC onto this disc means you won't have to drive to buy it if it was on another CD.

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destx said:

It's obvious that these are just features they had built into the game from day one, but someone (probably their shitty publisher) decided to deny the user access so they could squeeze some more money out of people who paid for the game. They're not even trying to hide it any more, Dragon Age was the same. Maybe Bioshock 3 will ask for your credit card number every time you pick up a new weapon.


Dragon Age is just awful with the DLC, and then Bioware has the nerve to charge $40 for the expansion pack.

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I want everyone to pirate the fuck out of this dime-and-nickel scheme.

This DLC included on disk is a parasitic money virus, rendering the Bioshock 2 DVD as nothing more than a very large demo disk.

Fuck you Kotick.

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caco_killer said:

Dragon Age is just awful with the DLC, and then Bioware has the nerve to charge $40 for the expansion pack.

Dragon Age prices are outrageous. I usually get the collectors edition of games I like, but for DA it was simply outside of the realm of possibilities.

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Honestly I simply don't care for the nickel and dime scheme of DLC at all. What happened to companies just giving updates with cool shit for free to get people to keep buying the game instead of keep buying more shit for the game they already paid for? Hence liking Valve for paying attention to their back catalog instead of trying to rip you off with it. And also paying attention to the community, encouraging free player made maps, etc. DLC is generally a bad move for the consumer and that's all there is to it. But however immoral I think it is, it's not going away now that CONGLOMOGAMING realizes they can squeeze more cash from their consumers. It's not illegal, it's just a dick move.

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Companies are treating games like services, not like "content" you acquire as property. Software already has a "service" quality that is further enhanced when distributed over the Internet or in similar ways. They can profit more from providing direct attention than just distributing software that can be easily copied or gets old quickly, so that's what they do.

Csonicgo said:
Why would there be content on the disc (that a person pays for) that the person still has to pay for?

It's a convenience, so that if you want the extras, you just need a "pass" instead of a package that takes time or effort to download.

{{I DONT PAY TWICE FOR WHAT I ALREADY POSSESS.}}

That might apply if they were selling the game by the kilobyte. You posses the data, but not the license to use it.

caco_killer said:
When you buy broadband internet, you pay a fee based on the speed and bandwidth you want. You're not paying $60 and having to pay more on top of that, you choose how you want it.

A game is not the Internet. When you buy cable or digital TV, you pay a fee based on the basic channels plus any extras you want. You're paying $60 and have to pay more on top of that if you want the those porn, sports, or movie channels not included with the basic fee, and thus choose how you want it. Various phone services use the same principle. You can make a certain amount of calls for the basic fee or certain type of calls are "free" with that service but you pay for excess calls or other types of calls.

When multiplayer is a service provided by the developers, they have extra costs from server maintenance and support that they have to cover, so it's not surprising if they treat it as an extra service past merely buying the rights to use the software by oneself.

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