After SUPER shotgun, why go back (some do)?

[Inhuman Strain]

I've read some polls about players' favorite Doom I-II weapons all around. The most popular choices were, understandably, the shotguns. However, given the choice between both shotguns, a lot of Doomers still chose the regular over the super. I'm personally asking why there is enough of an advantage in this over the super shotgun.

Granted, the reload time is quicker, but the advantage of the extra damage arguably outweighs that, and the time it takes for you to take out a pack of zombies with the regular shotgun is at least as long.

Precisely what is it that keeps some Doomers coming back to the regular shotgun? How is the quicker reload time that much more worth it?

[doom2day]

The normal shotgun's extremely thin/nonexistent vertical spread brings it second to the chaingun for 'sniping' usefulness.

Also, if there's a lot of thinly spread, weak enemies, the normal shotgun is more efficient ammunition-wise.

[kristus]

It isn't. But the extremely more precise aim, makes it work so much better at medium long range. While the SSG is a CC weapon.
Also, taking out smaller enemies with the SSG is usually resulting in more ammo wasted than if you would use the SG.

Depending on their numbers and bunching of course.

EDIT: Doh, beaten to it.

[phi108]

It's classic, and has a great nostalgia factor for Doom shareware veterans. Nothing compares to blasting through a level of zombies and imps one shell at a time.

[Mr. Freeze]

The regular shotgun is actually good at long-range. DooM is pretty much the only game that gets real-life shotguns somewhat correct besides the old Tom Clancy games.

[wildweasel]

I've never liked Doom's shotguns. I only use the SSG when I need to kill pinkies at close range - otherwise, give me the chaingun. (It just serves to piss me off that many modern WADs barely give you any bullets because you're expected to use the SSG 100% of the time.)

[PRIMEVAL]

My favorite weapon is actually the Rocket Launcher, but I can only use that sparingly. Between the two shotties, I choose the original single barrel as it is more accurate with a faster reload time. Of course the SSG has its uses, though.

[Snakes]

Shotgun is definitely more versatile than the SSG, honestly. Everyone's already pointed out its sniping ability and usefulness at medium range and what-not.

In all honesty, though, I think Doom had the best balance of weapons of any FPS I've played. Every gun (save the pistol, I suppose) had its proper moment for use. The SSG just became my most frequently-used because of the abundance of shells on every map. I prefer a map that can utilize all of the weapons well as opposed to a shellfest.

[Gez]

Snakes said:

Every gun (save the pistol, I suppose) had its proper moment for use.

Long-range sniping, if you're stingy or do not have found a chaingun yet. Also triggering shoot switches that you cannot punch. And Tysonning, I suppose.

[Coopersville]

Sniping and taking out packs of Imps.

[printz]

Snakes said:

Shotgun is definitely more versatile than the SSG, honestly.

Except if you have to deal with many cacos, mancs and pain elementals, you're going to be fed up.

[MP2E]

I use both depending on the situation, but in competitive playing, Super Shotgun is king. You pretty much have to use it for most instances or you're going to get rocked.

[Dco16]

Shotgun is great for picking off a disorganized crowd of imps. One hit, quick reload, and you can get a chain of one-hit kills.

[Mattfrie1]

The shotgun is the weapon I use the most when I play, namely for a quick reload time and the fact that it doesn't eat up as much ammo as the SSG.

The SSG does have it's moments though, it's the only weapon I use to take out Pinkys, as well as Cacos and PE's if I can't use the rocket launcher.

[Maes]

It's really simple:

SG: all-round CQ and mid-range weapon. Punches pretty hard up close (hard enough to take down low-tier monsters with 1 or 2 shots) and pelts generously from a distance, with a chance of delivering a full punch over a respectable range.

SSG: a SG optimized for CQ. You basically get 150% the power out of your shells, rivaling a rocket blast in damage yet without the splash damage to your face. Less useful the farther and smaller the target and a waste to use on too weak targets, extra power or not.

Good for taking down pinkies in a guaranteed 2 shells, and even cacos and revvies with 4 shells, most of the time. It's still usable in mid-range vs sufficiently large targets (Manci, cybers, single spider mastermind) or vs groups of monsters, spread well enough to catch all pellets.

If I had to do without one of them, I'd say it depends on the game: in Doom I the simple SG makes more sense, and the SSG would be wasteful in most settings, even in PWADs. Aand if a map was degenerate enough to be jam-packed with Pinkies, Barons and Cacos, then I'd choose a RL or something more powerful. Not that I wouldn't miss it in certain cases e.g. Lost Souls, but it'd be a bearable situation.

In Doom 2 however, will all those new mid-tier and semi-boss monsters...I'd choose the SSG. Too masochistic using the SG only on those.

[pavera]

Psh.. shotgun? When I get the SSG I don't even know the meaning of the word. Chaingun for taking out smaller hitscanners, SSG for everything else, Krisp wins the day, etc etc

[phi108]

(Dangit, every time a shotgun thread comes up I have the need to do some plugging)

In SMWGuns, a great way to get some use out of your shotgun is to wield it with your left hand while using an RPK, so you can dish out bullets and shells at the same time, with benefits of "chaingun sniping" and mid-range shell power. The kick of the SSG is so large that it could never be wielded in one hand.

And soon, you may find it possible to fire the Plasma Rifle and shotgun each with one hand, albeit with greater plasma spread.

[Use]

A shell, an imp.

[Maes]

Use3D said:

A shell, an imp.

That is not always technically possible, even with the best intentions ;-)

[kristus]

Krispavera said:

Psh.. shotgun? When I get the SSG I don't even know the meaning of the word. Chaingun for taking out smaller hitscanners, SSG for everything else, Krisp wins the day, etc etc

Chaingun is better used against Cacodemons and PE IMO.

Though, I love picking off zombies with the SG.

Maes said:

That is not always technically possible, even with the best intentions ;-)

That's when you switch to pistol to make the killing shot. :p

[pavera]

kristus said:

Chaingun is better used against Cacodemons and PE IMO.

Though, I love picking off zombies with the SG.

Yeah that is pretty efficient. I use it on weaker enemies like zombiemen and shotgun guys because it's pretty much a one hit kill on them, and it doesn't expend a lot of ammo, plus if there happens to be a big bad guy around the corner, I can keep him at bay in a pinch while the chaingun is out.

[Use]

Maes said:

That is not always technically possible, even with the best intentions ;-)

Ah, a zdoom user? :)

[phi108]

Huh? In zdoom, all 7 pellets are guaranteed to hit of you are right in the monster's face. In Vanilla, hitscans can go right through the target if you are oriented correctly on the blockmap.

But even when all 7 pellets connect, there is a minimum of 35 damage, so Imps can sometimes be left standing.
EDIT: But overall, one shell usually does it, and the SG is much more efficient against single imps than SSG. A big crowd is different, though, but I like the KDITD style of steady numbers of single-shell fodder.

[Cjwright79]

1. It's good to not waste ammo. No need for the SS if you're up against lone imps.

2. The reload time on the SS makes you very vulnerable if you miss.

[Abyssalstudios1]

SSG: Two shells one gun.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Shotguns can fit through smaller gaps, both horizontal (bars, windows etc.) and vertical (when snuggled up close to a ledge and looking right up shooting at monsters on it). Great for long tactical fights.

[pavera]

Cjwright79 said:

2. The reload time on the SS makes you very vulnerable if you miss.

Not if you're a goddamn master.

[Spleen]

If I had to choose between the shotgun and supershotgun when fighting zombiemen/sergeants/chaingunners, I'd almost always pick the shotgun. Its fast reload rate keeps them stunned more. I've gotten nailed pretty hard by chaingunners while reloading my supershotgun, whilst there's less of such a risk with the regular shotgun.

[xepop]

I hate SG, it´s so damn useless. It really pisses me off when in a hurry chaingunner blocks you and you have to basically roll a dice. With SSG it´s just booom and chainie is all over the place. Ammo wasting argument is such a bullshit too. There´s rarely a situation you encounter single low-tier monsters and if you do, changing to a SG is almost meaningless ammowise. Okay, if there´s single pistolguy in long range of course SG over SSG but what if there´s many? Why not get closer and blast them to bits with one SSG shot?

[WH-Wilou84]

xepop said:

Ammo wasting argument is such a bullshit too.

There are wads like the Chord series or Deus Vult II's maps 19 and 20 where the lack of ammo is part of the challenge, and you have to count your rounds. Not saying that kind of gameplay is fun, but it does exist anyway.

In multiplayer games, the Super Shotgun is clearly the main weapon.

In single, as stated above, it depends on the situation. Sometimes using the Shotgun can be quicker, on isolated weaker foes for instance ( not Chaingunners ).