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gun_psycho

Most hated Doom level

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What Doom level did you not have any fond memories of? (Excluding those slaughterfest maps, as that would be way too easy.)

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I can't think of anything specific, but I'll post what I like least in an actually good map;
-cramped spaces
-tons of hitscanners
-cheap traps you almost have to know are going to happen to escape. Especially near the end of a map.

Funnily most 1024 maps have most of these ...

Since I actually like slaughter maps a lot, I'll have to disagree on them being easy maps to hate. Well, the good ones anyway, bad slaughter maps bug me ;P

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Almost every Doom 2 level from map10-map27. I don't even remember most of them except that they sucked really bad. Map15 is pro though

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Doom II MAP21: there are a number of icky levels in Doom II, but this one out-ickies them all. The random texturing, the boring layout, the bright, airy lighting, and the fact that it looks like it was made in 10 minutes all make it a total disappointment...all the more so since it's the introductory level to Hell. I have never had any joy in playing this level.

Also, I never like MAP30, while I'm at it. It's not my most hated Doom level but it's just such a lazy execution...you get all the shit you need to beat the level in a tiny first room, and then play out the rest of the game in a 5-sector chamber with a giant face on one wall and acidfalls everywhere else. No level, no buildup, and a really lame puzzle for killing the boss.

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i hate every icon of sin map30 ever created, it's what defines me as a person.

doom2 map24 is a close second, because it introduced tiny ledges over acid while under fire to first person gaming. and to this day, some people mapping for doom/other games think it's a fun idea.

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I'm on the opposite fence here. :p Most of The Shores of Hell and Inferno are boring messes of maps. Except for E2M2, that one is ace.

If I had to pick one, I'd probably pick E2M1. One of the ugliest maps I've ever come across.

I assume we're speaking strictly "canon" Doom maps here, tho.

But to be honest, I really don't hate any maps. I just think E2 and E3 are really boring compared to the rest of Doom.

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StupidBunny said:

Doom II MAP21: there are a number of icky levels in Doom II, but this one out-ickies them all. The random texturing, the boring layout, the bright, airy lighting, and the fact that it looks like it was made in 10 minutes all make it a total disappointment...all the more so since it's the introductory level to Hell. I have never had any joy in playing this level.

Also, I never like MAP30, while I'm at it. It's not my most hated Doom level but it's just such a lazy execution...you get all the shit you need to beat the level in a tiny first room, and then play out the rest of the game in a 5-sector chamber with a giant face on one wall and acidfalls everywhere else. No level, no buildup, and a really lame puzzle for killing the boss.


Map30 was cool the first time I played it, and hard cuz you had to beat it one go (loading a game saved in the big room made Doom crash to dos...) :-(

TBH I always considered it to be the second half of Map29...maybe the inside of the mountain. Lol

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zdctf (most maps)
Cjwright's maps (but there getting better)
Rangex's Entryway (it has everything I hate in a map)
E2M9,and E3M9
map21-26,30 (doom2)
Axxis DM (map 3)
agahz (playing dm with rockets,deathtraps,moving floors everywhere is not fun at all)

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dew said:

i hate every icon of sin map30 ever created, it's what defines me as a person.

doom2 map24 is a close second, because it introduced tiny ledges over acid while under fire to first person gaming. and to this day, some people mapping for doom/other games think it's a fun idea.

Wow, I never suspected your taste is so close to mine.

There was a bunch of levels I used to hate years ago because they were too difficult for me on skill 2. I find them nowadays actually good/very good. Examples: plutonia MAP16, scythe2 MAP26.

Some more:
- MM2 MAP26 - not horrible, just worth mentioning as my least favourite map from my most favourite megawad.
- MM MAP07 - here dew will disagree, but the switch maze, HOMs, super secret plasma rifle (the only plasma until MAP14), the fact it's impossible to finish this map in <2 minutes... ouch.
- Eternal MAP03, so long, so boring.
- Most of the maps which allow me to get trapped.
- And the absoulte "winner" (gun_psycho: I can't allow myself to exclude slaughterfests), some peoples' favourite: HR MAP22. For me it's absolutely disgusting.

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All this thread has done is really reestablish that a lot of Doomers don't like Doom 2, and I still, for the life of me, can't really figure out why. I know I know, gimmicks 'n blah blah blah, but none of the levels bother me all that much.

Worst map I've played? Um... nothing immediately comes to mind. Probably TNT Map08, I guess. There were also some moments in Super Sonic Doom that made my head fucking explode.

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Most of the Doom 2 levels not built by Sandy Petersen are kinda weak. Also, E4M4 in Doom 1 sucks. Buggy as heck.

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Doom: E2M9 & E3M1
Doom 2: map 12 & 21
Deus Vult Zero: The Shadowrunner Edition
Anything made by Terry(the guy who made UAC Military Nightmare)

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Here are some maps I actually don't like.

Hell Revealed's Map31 and Map32 (I beat this megawad many times over, including these two levels, and I still dread doing those two secret levels far more than the rest of the megawad, even map24. I don't like the former because of the cramped space in the elevator shaft with barely any cover and the latter... I know I may be "cheating" with this one, but even I thought it was nuts with the spawn shooter on UV.)

Scythe's Map28 (Make one mistake because of the "time limit" and you're hosed.)

Scythe 2's Map31 (Even reaching the normal exit is a pain in the ass on UV because of those super-fast plasma rifle marines. Don't even get me started on reaching the secret exit)

Alien Vendetta's Map11 (The map's layout wasn't exactly easy for me to navigate without backtracking.)

This list is from the megawads I have beaten with Scoredoom so far.

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E2M9 - I don't see much wrong with the map itself, but the name is so misleading. I was expecting a huge, complex castle type map or a Deimos Lab stronghold completely taken over by Hell. Instead I get two rooms and three key all huddled right next to the exit. Not much of a fortress if you ask me.

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Am I the only one who finds switch hunt-centric maps annoying? I remember playing Armadosia... but I'd be damned if I made it further than the beginning of the fifth map.

Need I mention that on my previous post I played scoredoom with those super-hard megawads and the add-on pack? (along with the new "no infighting" option only for my semi-recent HR1 playthrough)

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I don't give enough thought to levels I dislike to be able to respond directly and I certainly don't hate anything in the id IWADs. Any decent level is like the game's weapons, anyhow. Their merits are relative. For example, gun_psycho complains about AV11, and yes, it can be confusing initially, so perhaps it's not as fun in the first play-through if you get lost, but once you are relatively familiar with it, it becomes an interesting puzzle to solve, offering various routes and possibilities not found in more well-marked or straightforward levels.

Part of the reason why I'm not too irritable in regard to levels is because DOOM is mainly about its mechanics, and levels shine according to what the players that play them do to them. And since playing is done by many of us and I can watch just as much as I can play, personal setbacks or limitations or even preferences don't stop me from enjoying levels that others can play more naturally. The act of playing and the levels can't really be taken as separate objects when judging the worth of the games or levels.

dew said:
doom2 map24 is a close second, because it introduced tiny ledges over acid while under fire to first person gaming. and to this day, some people mapping for doom/other games think it's a fun idea.

Aha, I get it; yet another runner is driven insane trying to beat Sedlo's masterpiece!

printz said:
Also, E4M4 in Doom 1 sucks. Buggy as heck.

Are you sure you don't mean one of the other levels? I don't really remember any bugs. I like that smallish brown level, although it might as well have been harder. That's not the level's fault so much as the level placement in the episode. Perhaps swapping it with E4M1 would have been reasonable, changing item placement a bit.

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Doom 2 map30, without a goddamn doubt. However it can be useful for testing replacement monsters. That's about it.

As far as ultimate doom maps goes, the only map I used to loathe was e2m6: Halls of the Damned. So fucking confusing when I was young. These days I tolerate it. Everything else is just gold.

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myk said:

I don't really remember any bugs.


The secret in the cube/slime hall is found in an awkward way.

The cacodemons revealed near the end appear by two, stuck in each other, in UV.

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I'm going to list levels that I dislike that are not total shit wads like Terry maps. Things that have a level of technical quality but are still repugnant.

* Every Icon of Sin map ever. Just end your megawad with a few cyberdemons or something, I can't stand these anymore.
* Daedalus: Alien Defense. Some of the most annoying puzzles in Doom history.
* Timed ZDoom maps.
* Doom II map24 and imitators.
* Map sets that aren't consistent with damaging floors. Is brown sludge dangerous? Is it not? Make up your fucking mind!
* Legacy of Suffering for taking everything I dislike in modern FPS games and bringing it to Doom, often worse than it originally was.

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Woolie Wool said:

!
* Legacy of Suffering for taking everything I dislike in modern FPS games and bringing it to Doom, often worse than it originally was.


Heh really? I was sure everyone would be sucking that wads dick for years to come.

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Fuck no, I want to cut that wad's dick off and feed it to sharks. It's the least fun I've had playing Doom in a long time with the exception of generic shit wads like Terry's that aren't really worthy of discussion.

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Use3D said:

Heh really? I was sure everyone would be sucking that wads dick for years to come.


LoS sucked. Go into a room, demon spam. Next room, demon spam. Add in a crippling lack of health and ammo, terrible translation efforts, and horrible HORRIBLE metal music, and it falls flat on its face.

How that...THING won a Cacoward confuses me on several levels.

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It has some strong points, but gameplay definitely isn't one. It mostly plays like a chore, mostly because the fights are far too repetitive and far too predictable. Environment could have benefited from being more varied and less orthogonal as well. Why is it than when you can go overboard with details and 3D floors, you end up creating a Wolf3D layout, just with complicated walls? And finally the story was mostly pointless (extra-pointless: that interactive laptop that you can only read if you change your FOV to 10 or something like that, why did they even bother?).

It wasn't complete shit and it's obvious there was a lot of work behind it, the sprite reworks were nice, the quad-shotgun was fun, etc. But the gameplay was terrible.

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@Myk - Sure it's ok to take your time in AV11 when playing vanilla doom, but playing it with Scoredoom (meaning you got the par time clock to worry about if you're into big points like I am) regardless if you use the add-on pack or not... yeah, I didn't like navigating that map at all.

As for Legacy of Suffering, I didn't play that one... and since I'm not all that interested in the more modern FPS games, I doubt I'd try it out either.

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