best doom clone?

[jilldoom]

What is the best game based off of the doom engine? which one has the best AI? or is all the AI the same?

also, how do I disable cheats and certain commands like sprint, jump and crouch for the players playing my game?

[Gez]

jilldoom said:

What is the best game based off of the doom engine? which one has the best AI? or is all the AI the same?

All Doom-engine games (Doom, Doom 2, Final Doom, Heretic, Hexen, Strife, Chex Quest) have the same AI. Some monster-specific functions are more developed (e.g., bosses in Heretic and Hexen react a bit differently when they're hurt), but the core is the same and the overall level of the AI is identical.

jilldoom said:

also, how do I disable cheats and certain commands like sprint, jump and crouch for the players playing my game?

You cannot disable cheats (in most ports anyway). They're cheats.

Jumping and crouching can be disabled with MAPINFO in ZDoom. For other ports, refer to their documentation, assuming they even have such features enabled (Hexen and Strife ports need jumping, but otherwise these are extra features). As for running, you don't.

[magicsofa]

MAPINFO can still be overridden in-game though

[jilldoom]

thanks!

[Maes]

Gez said:

You cannot disable cheats (in most ports anyway). They're cheats.

No, but you can make them annoying as hell when used. Even Aliens Doom TC fucked up with the HUD if you selected the BFG (which wasn't used in the TC), and changed your mug to "Can't hack it, eh?"

[Gez]

And Batman Doom, too. Still neither of those protect against noclip, degreelessness or idbehold. :p

In a port with a console, something like "take bfg9000" removes the effect of these hacks, by the way.

[Spleen]

There's no foolproof way to prevent cheating, but here's one that will work against most non-technical players.

1) Make the WAD only work in Skulltag
2) Make the WAD only work if it is being played online
3) Make an ACS script that sets sv_cheats to false continuously

[printz]

Gez said:

All Doom-engine games (Doom, Doom 2, Final Doom, Heretic, Hexen, Strife, Chex Quest) have the same AI. Some monster-specific functions are more developed (e.g., bosses in Heretic and Hexen react a bit differently when they're hurt), but the core is the same and the overall level of the AI is identical.

Well, some monsters seem to have different chasing routines. For example, Hexen afrits aren't subject to fast mode autoshooting. And they love to strafe at erratic moments.

Stupid Hexen bishops behave the same, and tend to fire even when not seeing you, and don't seem to switch targets. I think I was able to use the bishops summoned by the Heresiarch to kill their boss, while being in hiding myself.

[Gez]

Spleen said:

There's no foolproof way to prevent cheating, but here's one that will work against most non-technical players.

1) Make the WAD only work in Skulltag
2) Make the WAD only work if it is being played online
3) Make an ACS script that sets sv_cheats to false continuously

I have a better solution:
1) Make the mod normally
2) Record yourself playing it by the rules
3) Upload video to Youtube but never distribute the actual mod


Preventing cheating in games is even more stupid than preventing copying. The only way to be sure is not to let other people play with it.

printz said:

Well, some monsters seem to have different chasing routines. For example, Hexen afrits aren't subject to fast mode autoshooting. And they love to strafe at erratic moments.

Stupid Hexen bishops behave the same, and tend to fire even when not seeing you, and don't seem to switch targets. I think I was able to use the bishops summoned by the Heresiarch to kill their boss, while being in hiding myself.

That's part of the monster-specific functions I was talking about. It doesn't really belie a greater artificial intellect, it's just a different attack codepointer. Is the mancubus smarter than the imp because he fires three volleys of fireballs in slightly different directions? Not in my opinion. The core routines for detecting its opponent, aiming at it, and so on, are still the same. There's nothing in there I would consider to be an advanced AI.

On the other hand, Lee Killough did try to achieve a better AI, with functions to let monsters minimize infighting (withholding fire if a fellow monster is in their line of sight, avoiding ganging up on a target that is already attacked by several other fellow monsters, etc.) but the results weren't all that convincing. Having the monsters aware of their environment -- other monsters, other allies of the player, possible cover, reacting to doors and lifts accordingly, being wary of hazards such as crushers and barrels, etc. -- would be what I would consider greater AI.

[printz]

I admit that having monsters communicate with each other would be cool. But with more variety than "I need assistance!"

[Gez]

printz said:

But with more variety than "I need assistance!"

Imp: "Hallo, demon, old chap. Lovely weather inn't? I love wotchin' the shadows of the sulfur cloud dance ofer the valley o' corpses-onna-stick."
Demon: "A most fetching spectacle I'll say. So peaceful, far from the commotion in the lower dens."
Imp: "A commotion, you say? What hoppened then, pray tell?"
Demon: "Oh, business as usual I guess. Arch-Vile's clique raising a fuss in Fatso's joint, as they're wont to do. I don't care a caco's fart if you ask me, but high-muckety-muck Baron can't stop ravin' about it, you know how he is."
Imp: "Indeed, indeed. Quite embarrassing when it hoppens, inn't?"
Demon: "Tell me 'bout it. Or rather, don't. Care to go see if the latest batches of lost souls are ripe yet?"

[Csonicgo]

Gez said:

amazing

[Clonehunter]

"Best Doom Clone"

Well, going to that, (even though its all really based on graphics in most cases, not all, but most), probally Hexen. And whether it counts or not Star Wars Dark Forces for the whole freaking win.

[EvilNed]

I've played the Doom games, Heretic, Hexen and Strife repeatedly. I have not played anything else based on the Doom engine.

But out of those three (Heretic, Hexen, Strife) I'd probably pick Heretic. I remember gaming through the shareware in much the same way I did with Doom, and the first episode is almost as nostalgic to me as Knee Deep in the Dead. Strife gets a close second, but is a game I play through far less often than Heretic. Probably due to the fact that only recently have source ports for Strife been getting good.