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Spleen

US Soldiers shoot children in Iraq while laughing

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It's certainly the most significant thing I've seen on Wikileaks.

I'm waiting for an official response by the US military and/or government before I form a strong opinion.

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The saddest thing is that the comments on these videos are usually flooded by "patriots" claiming that the pilot was just doing his job of killing "dangerous terrorists disguised and mixed with innocent people" who might have "pulled a Stinger, an RPG or detonated an IED at anytime" and that anyone disagreeing with them is a fucking traitor disrespecting the military tradition of their families which have fought in every American War in the last two centuries, with particular emphasis on Korea, Vietnam, Panama and Desert Storm, in addition to the War on Terror.

SIEG HEIL!!!

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Most of the comments I'm seeing are along the lines of "this is why we hate America" and "we need to destroy America", while there are many peaceful, intelligent, globally-minded Americans who do not agree with the reason for the war and many of the sentiments of the troops.

I do still "support the troops" and want them to survive and come home sooner instead of later, and I also try to understand the emotional freakiness that they can go through while actually being part of a war. But they really have to be a bit smarter than this. "AK-47s" is plural, while I think I saw one gun, and a bit of a closer inspection would have shown that "RPG" to be a camera.

And couldn't they just send Sam Fisher to eavesdrop on those guys first? What's with all the "shoot first, spy later" nonsense in modern warfare?

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Wow, sounds like they actually thought they were insurgents but still, that was entirely their (U.S. Troops) fault. Camera looks like an AK-47? Bah.

Just goes to show how fucked up the world really is, and I don't see how anyone can stand behind those in the helicopter.

Also waiting for an official reply from the U.S.

EDIT: Yeah Phi, the anti-Americans don't realize that we don't support this kind of stuff. Hell, some of us hate the things our country does just as much as them.

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Maes said:

SIEG HEIL!!!

SIEG HEIL = Ends any argument.
Unfortunately because I share your anger.
I think these guys are laughing because they are mentally broken.

There are 310 000 000 millions souls living in the US. They're responsible for their own deeds not for the deeds of the others.

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phi108 said:

Most of the comments I'm seeing are along the lines of "this is why we hate America" and "we need to destroy America", while there are many peaceful, intelligent, globally-minded Americans who do not agree with the reason for the war and many of the sentiments of the troops.


Your point is a fair one - and no different to the point being made all over the world by peaceful, intelligent, globally-minded Muslims and Arabs when they are regarded with suspicion because a handful of Muslims and Arabs commit acts of terror.

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Enjay said:

...because a handful of Muslims and Arabs commit acts of terror.


Oh definitely. Stereotyping is really a negative aspect of society, and it's unfortunate that it's so rampant.

There probably will always be "radical", belligerent, or otherwise annoying people throughout the world. I just hope that soon our global common sense rises to the point where we deal with these people individually, instead of being xenophobic, isolationist, and otherwise racist, bigoted, prejudiceed, or warlike against others.

Oops, did my hippie side take over again? But drugs are bad! Peace is boring! Oh well, no turning back now.

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phi108 said:

I just hope that soon our global common sense rises to the point where we deal with these people individually, instead of being xenophobic, isolationist, and otherwise racist, bigoted, prejudiceed, or warlike against others.

Unfortunately, I'm definitely a glass half empty kind of person when it comes to faith in the human animal being able to do the right thing in these kind of matters. Millions of years have crafted a violent, short sighted, selfish creature that we seem to find it impossible to break away from (and which many people don't even want to). :(

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As far as I can tell, this happens with any army in any war and somehow everybody acts shocked. War is nasty. It breaks minds.

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Enjay said:

Unfortunately, I'm definitely a glass half empty kind of person when it comes to faith in the human animal being able to do the right thing in these kind of matters. Millions of years have crafted a violent, short sighted, selfish creature that we seem to find it impossible to break away from (and which many people don't even want to). :(


I've sort of developed that mindset, or at least accepted that this will be the case for the span of my lifetime. For as sophisticated as we tend to this we are, stuff like this proves otherwise. The psychology of war is bizarre and brutal, and frankly, I wish this stuff would just end. Can't see it happening anytime soon.

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Aliotroph? said:

As far as I can tell, this happens with any army in any war and somehow everybody acts shocked. War is nasty. It breaks minds.

I'm kind of this mindset. It's still very horrific that this can happen. But every war up until and including now, had events just like this. A soldier has to have this mind set during wartime.

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Aliotroph? said:

As far as I can tell, this happens with any army in any war and somehow everybody acts shocked. War is nasty. It breaks minds.


That's true enough, and I'm probably not as disgusted as a lot of people, but this really does seem kind of inexcusable. It seems like they were looking for a reason to fuck some shit up, and that's not very appropriate even from bullies like America.

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The Apache sighter/gunner(s) were fucking idiots who didn't adequately identify their targets.

That being said, the US government has willingly dropped extreme payloads on two Japan civilian cities, and threatened more. A fuck up by one driver in the scheme of things is nothing.

By the way, those Apache bullets were, I believe 30cals. Look at the van windshield and what kinda hole it put in it. Those are capable of dropping TANKS with relative ease.

Shooting a person directly with those is just disgusting.

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It's funny that the soldiers are usually blamed when somebody up the chain of command probably ordered this, or at least supplied the targets. Shit like this is always a tragedy, though.

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Aliotroph? said:

As far as I can tell, this happens with any army in any war


What, wasn't the war over since May 2003, as per G.W. Bush? And isn't this a "peacekeeping" operation during "reconstruction" ?

As for it still being a war...it's more like a bunch of bullies or gangsters doing some unpunishable turkey shooting on their turf (and don't forget that there were no WMD ever, so the pretext for starting the war is void). I can hardly feel any sympathy for "their plight" or even think of them as soldiers or even as men.

Considering that modern armies are made of FUCKING VOLUNTEERS, I feel for them the same way I'd feel for a mall security guard or a pinkerton: you're basically a legalized paid thug with a gun. Would you feel for a security guard getting shot? How about a bodyguard? A cop? Unless they were your relatives, you would think of them as anything but "heroes". It's not like they snatched them away from their jobs, their gf, their mothers etc. and send them to fight in a foreign land like conscripts.

eargosedown said:

That being said, the US government has willingly dropped extreme payloads on two Japan civilian cities, and threatened more. A fuck up by one driver in the scheme of things is nothing.


Without justifying them, they had a precise reason for doing it: due to reasons that would become apparent in the range of 10-20 years (Cold War, Korean War etc.) they required an unconditional surrender from Japan TO THEM (and not, say, the Russkies after a land invasion) and the ability to perform an occupation ASAP (so a slow death by isolation and embargo of a country with no air force and no navy was not enough). So they opted for the "shock and awe" or "shake and bake".

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it's chilling and disgusting, but certainly not surprising. what comes to my mind is how many other incidents with '9 insurgents and 2 civilians killed in a raid' looked exactly like this? those soldiers were making up a false sitrep like it was routine.

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Spleen said:

US Soldiers shoot children in Iraq while laughing

Here we have one of these little fuckers. Do you really think that they are innocent? Wtf O_o?

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Deeforce said:

Here we have one of these little fuckers. Do you really think that they are innocent? Wtf O_o?

hey, retard. does he really look iraqi to you?

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Snarboo said:

It's funny that the soldiers are usually blamed when somebody up the chain of command probably ordered this, or at least supplied the targets. Shit like this is always a tragedy, though.


I agree 100%. If you guys want someone to blame, blame the butterbar idiots who ordered it.

Shit like this made me drop out of ROTC and choose to enlist. Officers aren't exactly known for being smart.

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When they first started opening fire, I guess you could say they just thought it was an armed gang. I mean, not counting them being trigger happy and misidentifying targets. The really fucked up part is when after the initial barrage, they start gunning the people down for the heinous crimes of "surviving" and "attempting to get wounded to a hospital". Seriously, what the fuck?

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I don't think the general public is smart enough to be allowed to see this footage. Apart from that, I'm keeping what I think and know to myself.

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Coopersville said:

I don't think the general public is smart enough to be allowed to see this footage.

So for whose benefit is it kept from them? The general public has been dumbed-down incrementally now for ages by the same institutions that keep information from society for it's supposed 'benefit'. At what point are people going to demand 100% accountability from their governments? 100% transparency? World War 3 seems to be well under way, a war on consciousness/awareness that keeps people in a state of suspended apathy, while they continue to pay taxes that fund their own suppression, among other things D:

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Mr. Freeze said:

I agree 100%. If you guys want someone to blame, blame the butterbar idiots who ordered it.

Shit like this made me drop out of ROTC and choose to enlist. Officers aren't exactly known for being smart.

Nuremberg Principle IV
"The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him."


Just because someone ordered this does not relieve the perpetrators of their responsibility. A soldier's job is not only to follow orders, it is assess a situation and these soldiers neither tried nor cared to do that.

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Deeforce uttered: Here we have one of these little fuckers. Do you really think that they are innocent? Wtf O_o?


WTF indeed!

What the Hell is wrong with you?! Seriously, i think you need to go and have your head examined asap and if you already have the "Don´t kick the autistic kid"-card, you really need to go again, because you´re evidently not at all well, when stating it´s alright to kill children!

That is so way beyond acceptable that i cannot believe it...
...

[rant] #@¤&%*$ [/rant]

...

Damn, seeing that video ruined my day...

It´s hard to pin the blame on persons, as this is a collective fcuk up, but it clearly shows that the rules of engagement needs to be revised for these folks high above ground. Also.

I can see why the crew thought it to be a suspicious gathering of people ( some of them were carrying "stuff" ) and the photographer crouching behind the corner, pointing a powerful tele-lens at them, which well could resemble a something nasty-launcher from that angle.

However, they should have taken note of the fact that those people were standing and strolling around pretty calmly, despite the fact that the "RPG-photographer" had spotted them, which i doubt they would´ve done had they had sinister purposes.

The second attack was undeniably totally uncalled for. It´s definitely a war crime/crime against humanity and a clear breach of the Geneva convention whether you call the enemy soldiers, insurgents or terrorists.

...

"Oh, the humanity!"

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Ninjalah said:

Camera looks like an AK-47? Bah.

No, even worse. It resembles the rare, extra dangerous shoulder-mounted AK9001.

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Bank said:

Just because someone ordered this does not relieve the perpetrators of their responsibility. A soldier's job is not only to follow orders, it is assess a situation and these soldiers neither tried nor cared to do that.


I'm not disagreeing with you or in support of what happened. I'm just saying that's WHY it happened.

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phi108 said:

There probably will always be "radical", belligerent, or otherwise annoying people throughout the world. I just hope that soon our global common sense rises to the point where we deal with these people individually, instead of being xenophobic, isolationist, and otherwise racist, bigoted, prejudiceed, or warlike against others.


Usually the people who say they are all for peace are all are usually bullshitting. They say how they want peace and yet they say all this shit about others. Some of the hippies were all for love yet they bombed buildings, some "peace" they have.

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