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vdgg

Doom II MAP15 - 100% secrets possibility?

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Partially inspired by Kristian Ronge's discovery (MM, MAP15) I was wondering about the secret in MAP15 from Doom II which, according to common knowledge, cannot be registered:

Once inside the building locked by a yellow key, follow the lava river south to the end, and flip the switch there. This raises a staircase back in the previous area (N). Walk up the first section of these stairs, but before turning left to continue up, open the corner wall in front of you. This reveals a secret teleporter. Notice that due to an editing error, the secret area will not be triggered unless one walks on the teleport pad using no clipping. Otherwise, you'll go through the teleporter without causing the secret to register.

I know here a few players which are trickaholics and specialists in linedef-which-trigger-something skipping. Personally I do such things only by mistake (like in m2141034, where I crossed a teleporting line with no effect, only teleported myself in the second attempt). How about linedef 1211 in MAP15? Is it possible to walk over it (west->east) without teleporting and register the secret this way? BTW, this would make current UV Max and NM100 records beatable just by recording any valid demo...

Sorry if this possibility is naive or has already been discussed.

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Presumably it is feasible to do so, but quite random and therefore something that would spoil UV Max on this map as a demo category.

I'd guess that's why this was enshrined in the compet-n rules as a secret that you don't need to worry about. There are similar motivations for a number of other map-specific rules. For instance, it's possible to kill quite a few of the monsters in E1M8's exit room, but the rules don't require you to kill any of them. With the "natural" Max rules, the best demo would be the one where the most monsters in that room are killed, with how quickly you had killed the monsters prior to that less of a consideration. That's a bit less of a test of skill.

But sure, a "True" Max in such cases would be of interest, but I'd consider it be to a separate category (call them Max and Max* if you wish), rather than something that invalidates all Max demos recorded with a target of 90% secrets.

As for techniques to make reaching such secrets less of a random luckfest, a glide off a monster or other thing (or even a vertex) might be your best bet. (Sorry, I haven't checked the map to see what possibilities there might be in that respect.)

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I just tested and can verify it is possible. Thingrunning + shooting teleport = profit. I tested just a minute but I think shooting teleport might be feasible for demo as thingrunning alone had no effect. Either yourself or chaingunner.

Edit: I correct myself a bit (it was 4 am here...)
Thingrunning is possible way, shooting doesn't quite work. I don't know if it's even possible to shoot yourself and need chaingunner which doesn't really work here (map 29 it works too often)

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Grazza said:

but I'd consider it be to a separate category (call them Max and Max* if you wish), rather than something that invalidates all Max demos recorded with a target of 90% secrets.

I seem to recall Adam Hegyi saying that if a level can only be completed in a certain category due to a bug, then that category wouldn't be recognized by COMPET-N.

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