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Necros20

What Source Port do you commonly use?

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When I got Doom collectors edition I was a bit disappointed to see that it only came with the shitty Doom95 executables. So for playing any non-sourceport wad I prefer to use chocolate Doom since it most closely replicates vanilla doom. If a wad calls for any limit removing source port I go with Zdoom unless of course they specify otherwise.

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Eternity for very nearly all general playing and testing.

Chocolate Doom and Chocorenderlimits for KDiKDiZD development.

ZDoom, Skulltag, or GZDoom from time to time for testing or otherwise playing wads that require them.

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This question has never been asked before. This is a unique thread with a unique topic, and here is my unique response. I hope you appreciate it.

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Yawn.

My custom builds of GZDoom for just about everything. Sometimes my custom builds of Eternity. Sometimes custom builds of ZDoom when developing some possible feature.

Other ports out of curiosity from time to time.

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In principle, whatever port a wad that I'm interested in requires. However, wads that use advanced-port features over the years started to generate a "WTF?" response more and more until the point where I stopped bothering to look at them unless there was a very strong reason to. Not saying that these features can't be used well (e.g. wads by Tommy Quick, Bryant Robinson, Kaiser and others), but it seems to be becoming rarer and rarer. With Graf Zahl saying something similar, I don't think I'm just imagining it.

So basically, Prboom+ for everything I am likely to play, or vanilla (most likely the "-plus" versions), Chocolate or Eternity if I'm testing or comparing something.

Uh, and for Hexen, it's uHexen, of course.

But I'm happy that all the ports exist, as they each offer something of value to portions of the big happy family that is the Doom community, and very often one port will benefit from development and ideas from others.

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Never_Again said:

I suppose you meant prBoom-plus. Running prBoom has been pointless since 2005.


No, I run PrBoom because it’s packaged for Debian.

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I really only play ReMooD when I develop it, which hasn't been very recent at all.

ducon said:

No, I run PrBoom because it’s packaged for Debian.


DEBIAN!

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prBoom for single player.
Skulltag for multiplayer.

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Grazza said:

In principle, whatever port a wad that I'm interested in requires. However, wads that use advanced-port features over the years started to generate a "WTF?" response more and more until the point where I stopped bothering to look at them unless there was a very strong reason to. Not saying that these features can't be used well (e.g. wads by Tommy Quick, Bryant Robinson, Kaiser and others), but it seems to be becoming rarer and rarer. With Graf Zahl saying something similar, I don't think I'm just imagining it.

Right. The problem I see with ZDoom, and making Doom maps for it (instead of Heretic and other games) is that you can do pretty much more under the level design department by using Eternity instead, provided it gets working linked portals and a scripting language in time.

Doom ZDoom seems saturated somehow of ideas that couldn't be done even in PrBoom more compactly. You can use MBF features in PrBoom, and everyone who uses PrBoom(-Plus) will be able to play them. Codepointers like RandomJump, Spawn and PlaySound exist in PrBoom too, allowing some nifty monsters and effects to be designed using DEHACKED.

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printz said:

Right. The problem I see with ZDoom, and making Doom maps for it (instead of Heretic and other games) is that you can do pretty much more under the level design department by using Eternity instead, provided it gets working linked portals and a scripting language in time.

Doom ZDoom seems saturated somehow of ideas that couldn't be done even in PrBoom more compactly. You can use MBF features in PrBoom, and everyone who uses PrBoom(-Plus) will be able to play them. Codepointers like RandomJump, Spawn and PlaySound exist in PrBoom too, allowing some nifty monsters and effects to be designed using DEHACKED.

I do not understand your argument.

Linked portals can be faked to some extent in ZDoom (using silent teleports, something even vanilla Hexen did use). Linked portals are a better way to do something that's already possible as far as level design go; not something entirely new.

Then you say that scripting lets you do more in level design, provided it is available. ZDoom has ACS (and GZDoom also has FraggleScript). EE currently has Small, but it's deprecated and not compatible with x64 builds so you can say it's not actually there.

So I don't see how those things support the point you seem to be making.

But then you reverse the argument completely by saying that ZDoom-specific features cannot be played in PrBoom. Whereas obviously, linked portals and scripting language can. I guess.

So you are there arguing that something is better than something else if it can do something that everything can do. And I fail to grasp the logic in your reasoning.

Not saying that people should map for ZDoom instead of Eternity; people are free to map for whatever port they want to; just saying that I don't see your point when you say people should map for Eternity instead of ZDoom.

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Never_Again said:
Besides ignorance and inertia, is there a single good reason to use prBoom over prBoom-plus?

On my regular (Windows 98) system, I use PrBoom for coop and deathmatch because PrBoom+ has a mouse lag bug in multiplayer and Chocolate Doom has a bug that makes it terminate. Neither port developer has a system to debug these nor has anyone with sufficient expertise stepped up to find them, so they remain.

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Gez said:

I do not understand your argument.

Linked portals can be faked to some extent in ZDoom (using silent teleports, something even vanilla Hexen did use). Linked portals are a better way to do something that's already possible as far as level design go; not something entirely new.

Then you say that scripting lets you do more in level design, provided it is available. ZDoom has ACS (and GZDoom also has FraggleScript). EE currently has Small, but it's deprecated and not compatible with x64 builds so you can say it's not actually there.

So I don't see how those things support the point you seem to be making.

But then you reverse the argument completely by saying that ZDoom-specific features cannot be played in PrBoom. Whereas obviously, linked portals and scripting language can. I guess.

So you are there arguing that something is better than something else if it can do something that everything can do. And I fail to grasp the logic in your reasoning.

Not saying that people should map for ZDoom instead of Eternity; people are free to map for whatever port they want to; just saying that I don't see your point when you say people should map for Eternity instead of ZDoom.

My problem is that I can't have a ZDoom project idea and appear like a cool kid afterwards. If I use the full extent of the ZDoom engine, it probably results in another gameplay than Doom's and it'll fail to interest avid Doom players that seek the same old thing but more.

If I only use parts of ZDoom, it risks blending too much among similar projects that are made only with DEHACKED and changed graphics, and someone might be tempted to recreate it to prove it's possible just with vanilla Doom, as it is happening right now with (KDi)KDiZD.

Mixing teleportation lines with regular portals isn't very cool, and it has definite telefragging, among other difficult problems that are probably going to be fixed after a while from the LPs.

All this only applies to Doom. With Heretic, Hexen and Strife, ZDoom is still the best, as their more-complex-than-Doom base IWAD gameplays blend much better with ZDoom's stuff. On the other hand, Doom is too basic and I don't expect too much philosophy from its custom levels.

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printz said:

If I only use parts of ZDoom, it risks blending too much among similar projects that are made only with DEHACKED and changed graphics, and someone might be tempted to recreate it to prove it's possible just with vanilla Doom, as it is happening right now with (KDi)KDiZD.

Wouldn't that depend on how much the project is advertising itself as a "awesome project that makes full use of the ZDoom engine"? After all, KDiZD back in the hype days was commonly advertised as being a mod that uses ZDoom to it's fullest extent (at least from what I can tell).

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InsanityBringer said:

After all, KDiZD back in the hype days was commonly advertised as being a mod that uses ZDoom to it's fullest extent (at least from what I can tell).


It depends what you consider the 'fullest extent'.

It uses complex custom monsters, it uses slopes, ACS, DECORATE and most other features but on the other hand there's one thing it does not to: It does not use these features to create a new game.

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Grazza said:

But I'm happy that all the ports exist, as they each offer something of value to portions of the big happy family that is the Doom community, and very often one port will benefit from development and ideas from others.


It seems that the reason for all these source ports are so Doom can be played on a modern OS and so modders can overcome vanilla limitations.
On another note, for Heretic, Hexen, and Strife I run the original executables under dosbox for the iwads and vanilla pwads.

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myk said:

On my regular (Windows 98) system, I use PrBoom for coop and deathmatch because PrBoom+ has a mouse lag bug in multiplayer and Chocolate Doom has a bug that makes it terminate. Neither port developer has a system to debug these nor has anyone with sufficient expertise stepped up to find them, so they remain.


Does ReMooD 0.7a have this bug? When I tested it on (a real) 98, it did not.

Never_Again said:

That's the first good reason I see anyone list, although the case is marginal at best. How many people run Win98 these days? You, me and Ledmeister? How many run Win98 as their main platform? I know haven't since 2003, after losing a 100 Gig+ video collection, painstakingly put together over several years, to the LBA-48 bug. Of these, how many play DOOM online? Because for LAN or dial-up play under '98 you might as well use vanilla.


Me

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GhostlyDeath said:
Does ReMooD 0.7a have this bug? When I tested it on (a real) 98, it did not.

I doubt the mouse bug affects it unless you took mouse code from PrBoom+, which is the only place I've experienced that, of all the engines I've used online. If you mean the Chocolate bug, I don't know, although it does affect Strawberry Doom. In this demo, Chocolate and Strawberry terminate right after I get the plasma gun and open the door leading to the cavern area.

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I use GZDoom for almost everything G/ZDoom related, and haven't found anything ZDoom only. But... I suppose there may be a handful of mods that are.

For Vanilla / Vanilla deh, I use Chocolate Doom.

I'll occasionally use a port of ADoom to the Sony PSP. I have also messed around with the really old ports to the iPod Classic, and Dreamcast as well.

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