Doom II XBLA Now Released!

[D_GARG]

Maes said:

And then CYBIE.WAD loaded....

no I hope not, if it does, then your mind as you know it, is doomed.

it cannot be unseen

[TheCastle]

xttl said:

It's a mapping bug/oversight. See this and this.

How in the world did that get by?? *scratches head*
Can anyone confirm if that is also a problem on the 360 version?

[Quasar]

TheCastle said:

How in the world did that get by?? *scratches head*
Can anyone confirm if that is also a problem on the 360 version?

It's just a sector accidentally marked secret, so it should work the same everywhere. Just a minor mistake that's unnoticable if you happen to walk there. It's probably the *only* place I didn't walk :>

[scalliano]

TheCastle said:

How in the world did that get by?? *scratches head*
Can anyone confirm if that is also a problem on the 360 version?

Don't let it get you down, mate - if it's any consolation, PSX Doom had a TON of issues like that :)

[TheCastle]

scalliano said:

Don't let it get you down, mate - if it's any consolation, PSX Doom had a TON of issues like that :)

Yeah its confirmed and noted now.
Anyone find anything else like this PM me or Squib ok.

[xttl]

TheCastle said:

Yeah its confirmed and noted now.
Anyone find anything else like this PM me or Squib ok.

Not map related, but if there's going to be an official upgrade patch for the game on XBLA or something, I think you should fix the playback of 22050Hz sound samples. Right now, at least the SSG reload sounds are played too slowly because the engine seems to treat every sound effect as it was sampled at 11025Hz.

Same goes for the music tempo which is too slow compared to the PC version. Maybe a MUS2MID conversion error?

Also, autorun!

edit: Well, this is map related: Do you consider texture alignment errors (pic, pic and pic) bugs?

Another edit: Can someone tell whether this happens on the real console? That's the MAP04 exit door. Obviously it doesn't happen on PC with ports which have fixed that bug in the software renderer, but I wonder if the console version's renderer has this fix?

[hervoheebo]

Gez said:

Is MAP05 flipping us off?
...

Heh, reminds me of this:

[Abrax]

xttl said:

Another edit: Can someone tell whether this happens on the real console? That's the MAP04 exit door. Obviously it doesn't happen on PC with ports which have fixed that bug in the software renderer, but I wonder if the console version's renderer has this fix?

Confirmed, had this on my first run through on the 360

[JadedLexi]

Will a bugfixed version be released on the PC as well?

[ReFracture]

Clonehunter said:

Damn XBL. MORE PSN!! NOW!!

I know right?

Jodwin said:

What about no? :P

Haters gotta hate.


I'll just play this on a friend's 360.

[Quasar]

BlazingPhoenix said:

Will a bugfixed version be released on the PC as well?

Considering it requires a modified EXE I wouldn't hold your breath. They upped at least the drawsegs, visplanes, and vissprite limits, and possibly also limits such as MAXPLATS, MAXBUTTONS, and MAXANIMS. While it's true that id used PrBoom-Plus to create the iPhone version, there was still a significant amount of work - and QA - put into it before it touched the digital shelves. id has stated before that they won't endorse any of the unofficial source ports, so it's really unlikely that they'd just for example package it up with a slightly modified PrBoom (for the level names, secret exit, ending, etc) or something else.

The new ep is an incentive to buy the XBox version; putting it out on PC, at least any time soon, would partially undermine that. Also, seeing how it's managed to make its way onto the PC already, and some ports (heh-heh...) can run it with little to no modification, that's even less reason for them to think about the release. Everybody that bought it on XBox can already play it on PC if they are determined, so that reduces the target audience.

[_bruce_]

The new maps look pretty cool. Lots of work must have gone into them.

[Xeriphas1994]

Quasar said:

Look at how corporations have already succeeded in making people question their own rights. It's ridiculous. We're just a tiny step away from losing them altogether.

Not to single out Quasar here (his post was merely the most succinct), but are people really not seeing the difference between

(1) ripping the file to a PC for personal use;
(2) uploading/hosting/seeding the ripped file;
(3) posting step-by-step instructions on how to rip it?

It's each person's own decision whether they want to violate the EULA by doing (1), but the publisher could still claim damages for (3) since it discourages a large number of people from buying the game.  And I suggest that any of you would do the same, if you worked there or were a level designer, and you weren't eager for 50 people to be laid off and lose their kids' health insurance.

[40oz]

Xeriphas1994 said:

since it discourages a large number of people from buying the game.

I'm not so much discouraged as much as I lack the ability.

[xttl]

40oz said:
I'm not so much discouraged as much as I lack the ability.

Yeah, despite what some people say and believe (and want others to believe) not even nearly every illegitimate copy equals a lost sale. I don't have a Xbox360 and played these maps on PC, but on the other hand I got at least one person to buy this soon (or maybe he already bought it) on XBLA. And no, this person was not my "source" for these maps!

XBLA DRM would still make me twice to think about buying this myself, even if I had a Xbox. Well, I guess in this case it could be ok because (due to the maps being easy to rip) there's no way some shitty corporation can just flip a few bits and prevent me from playing these maps in the future on my PC. ;-)

[Quasar]

Xeriphas1994 said:

Not to single out Quasar here (his post was merely the most succinct), but are people really not seeing the difference between

(1) ripping the file to a PC for personal use;
(2) uploading/hosting/seeding the ripped file;
(3) posting step-by-step instructions on how to rip it?

It's each person's own decision whether they want to violate the EULA by doing (1), but the publisher could still claim damages for (3) since it discourages a large number of people from buying the game.  And I suggest that any of you would do the same, if you worked there or were a level designer, and you weren't eager for 50 people to be laid off and lose their kids' health insurance.

Right. I'm OK with #1. #2 is wrong, and #3 is a bad idea in this case, especially because of some of the things we learned after the fact. So I'm more in line with keeping these discussions in private venues than I was previously. At first it was just fun tinkering, and then things turned serious >_>

[InfraRed]

I wish they had put as much effort into this as they did Perfect Dark.

Either way, its essentially another in a long list of ports, and i got it mainly for the new levels and when im hungover and want to play lying on my couch rather than in a computer chair.

The no freelook on the map is a pain in the balls, however.

[hardcore_gamer]

InfraRed said:

The no freelook on the map is a pain in the balls, however.

I honestly don't understand people who use freelook in Doom. Its not how the game was intended to be played, and as a result playing the game with freelook can be harder and its easier brake the game with it (like looking down at monsters beneath you thus making it extremely easy to notice that they are just 2-D sprites) as well.

[ReFracture]

hardcore_gamer said:

I honestly don't understand people who use freelook in Doom.

It's mostly people who either feel it's archaic or didn't play the game years ago to have any really purism about it.

I know people who will not play doom without jumping and free look, and they do not care in the slightest that it shouldn't have it, they just start bitching about how shooters should always have had it, and blah blah blah.

"Hey, I beat Doom 2!" "yeah? did you use free look on the last level?" "of course I did, what a stupid easy fucking map!" "*sigh*.."

[wildweasel]

hardcore_gamer said:

I honestly don't understand people who use freelook in Doom. Its not how the game was intended to be played, and as a result playing the game with freelook can be harder and its easier brake the game with it (like looking down at monsters beneath you thus making it extremely easy to notice that they are just 2-D sprites) as well.

Probably not what he was referring to.

[Xeriphas1994]

hardcore_gamer said:

and as a result playing the game with freelook can be harder and its easier brake the game with it (like looking down at monsters beneath you thus making it extremely easy to notice that they are just 2-D sprites) as well.

Heh, the thing is that Heretic added free look but still has 2D sprites.  The bosses on E1M8 are far more difficult to kill than Bruiser Brothers, but you can look down from a height and watch them flop around on the floor.  It only adds to the overwrought B-movie ambience.

[Quasar]

I'll resort to it if I feel the wad in question is abusing height differences too much. Like if I have gangs of monsters too far below to keep an eye on, or too many tall ledges with sniping monsters. Otherwise I don't really use it.

[scalliano]

Mike.Reiner said:

It's mostly people who either feel it's archaic or didn't play the game years ago to have any really purism about it.

I know people who will not play doom without jumping and free look, and they do not care in the slightest that it shouldn't have it, they just start bitching about how shooters should always have had it, and blah blah blah.

"Hey, I beat Doom 2!" "yeah? did you use free look on the last level?" "of course I did, what a stupid easy fucking map!" "*sigh*.."

If the WAD is designed for jumping/crouching, so be it. Otherwise, no. Freelook is a different matter. There's no denying that the last map of Doom 2 is as cheap as fuck - I've beaten it without freelook, I don't feel the need to prove myself again (I bumped Romero's health up to 10000 in ZDoom, so it's still a challenge). Also, there's nothing more irritating than getting raped by a bunch of chaingunners/arachs and not being able to shoot them because there's a bunch of hissies that are higher up but just happen to be closer to me. As for purism, well I've been playing this game since 1995 and I like having freelook as an option. I'll still try to beat the IoS levels without it first time around, but once that's signed off I'll load my little patch ;)

As for the whole 2D sprite argument, that's just an occupational hazard of putting them through a hardware renderer, and it didn't stop commercial devs from doing it back in the day (anyone who's played the PSX version of Exhumed will know what I mean).

[myk]

scalliano said:
There's no denying that the last map of Doom 2 is as cheap as fuck

I'm definitely denying that, and I love how it can be completed in half a minute with a smart (vanilla) jump to the rising column and by timing three rockets in one go.

[scalliano]

Video?

My method was always to loose off a sneaky extra rocket as I dropped off the platform. Still took a few goes, though.

[myk]

You can find a movie here, at the bottom.

[scalliano]

Nice! Need to try that for myself.

[DoOmEr4LiFe]

hardcore_gamer said:

I honestly don't understand people who use freelook in Doom.

I just like being able to shoot Cacodemons/Lost Souls/PEs while I am looking at it instead of letting auto-aim take care of it. I have played Doom without it and I prefer to play with it on. Playing without it brings back the classic feel of the game, playing with it brings a perfectly acceptable addition to it. Simple as that.

On-topic: I watched the vids of the levels and I liked the looks of all of them, unfortunately I do not have a 360 but I probably will get one in the coming months and I will definitely get this.

[ReFracture]

scalliano said:

If the WAD is designed for jumping/crouching, so be it. Otherwise, no. Freelook is a different matter.

It's really jumping and crouching that bothers me the most, if the custom map is made for it then whatever, it's when people use it in the vanilla levels that I hate. As for free look, I only really look down on it when used to completely destroy any challenge that existed in map30.

scalliano said:

There's no denying that the last map of Doom 2 is as cheap as fuck

It's not that hard, even without the neat trick myk pointed out.

[InfraRed]

WildWeasel said:

Probably not what he was referring to.

not in the slightest. when you're looking at the map, you can't freeroam around the map. this is the pain in the balls.

mouselooking in doom totally skews everything and i've never felt a reason to even touch a mouse while playing doom.