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Deimos Deja Vu: E2 replacement

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Testing has ended. The wad is now on its way to /idgames.

The entirety of Episode 2 is now replaced. Maps:

E2M1 Deimos Anomaly
E2M2 Containment Area
E2M3 Refinery
E2M4 Deimos Lab
E2M5 Command Center
E2M6 Halls of the Damned
E2M7 Spawning Vats
E2M8 Tower of Babel
E2M9 Fortress of Mystery

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Download worked.

Looks good so far - though can say more when I've time to test it thoroughly.

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I love it! Reminds me of the original episode 2. Takes me back to the good old days. Anyway, I think e2m1 is a little easy, and possibly adding a couple of more secrets to all the levels wouldn't hurt. Can't wait for the new "Halls of the Damned", please make it super trapped and evil...and big...really big. Anyway, nice job so far.

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In e2m2 there's a part with skinny BRWNHUG(?) walkways in a lava pit, the pit to the right of the usual entrance is inescapable. That's something a lot of people have issues with, so you might want to make a way out.

I also made some fdas, but they were in -complevel 3 not 4 so random stuff got messed up -.- Overall it was pretty good but not really e2 style, although I haven't played e2 in a while so I'm not really sure it isn't ;)

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Thanks for the feedback everyone, to be honest I was expecting a more negative reception. Heh.

About that blood pit in E2M2... now I feel really dumb for not noticing that part. I'll set back the stairs to the medikit so it's escapable.

I'll make more secrets, noticed too that there's only a couple in each level. I'm trying to make them a bit more interesting than the usual wall-hump, though.

And regarding the theme.. I was referring more to the texture usage, E2 has lots of dirty techbase and hell textures mixed in, with STAR being sparse. Gameplay-wise it's a bit hard to make maps like Petersen's, since they are so abstract

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_bruce_ said:

E2M2 - crashes. "P_AddActivePlat: no more plats!"

It's because the lifts on all map's in the demo wad have that tag 0 "ZDoom-ism". Every Sx and Wx trigger needs a tag in Vanilla Doom.

On E2M2, a non-deaf Demon, aletered after firing a single shot will proceed to run over linedef 175, a WR lift line with a tag of 0, almost straight away, triggering the crash, to explain why the player doesn't cause the crash on this map.

Also, a missing lower texture on the tiny linedef 878 when the bridge is raised, on E2M1.

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Ohh. What a silly oversight. I did notice the crash when testing with Chocolate Doom, but thought it was just the map being too complex (heh)

Anyways, I fixed the lifts, added the missing texture and made the E2M2 sewer lift block monsters. I'm going to start doing M4 soon-ish if there aren't going to be any more things to fix.

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For E2M1 and E2M2 i would say that they are too plain and simple levels, too much switch thing going on, you should add more traps and suprises to these maps, E2M3 and E2M4 are awesome though.

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All four maps are awesome. They follow the theme and general flow of the originals pretty well. E2M1 in particular felt like an updated version of the original map. I have mixed feelings about not having a humongous crate maze in E2M2, but I guess your smallish maze is better.

@TheUltimateDoomer: Doom actually had very few monster traps, so I don't think someone aiming for a faithful E2 remake should use them all that much.

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hawkwind said:

Is anyone else having problems with this download ... corrupt ?

It work find for me this past afternoon.

Also I love the maps you made so far hervoheebo, hell you even made a remake of Fortress of Mystery that is actually *gasps* awesome and not crap like the original(despite ep2 being my favorite, it has the most disappointing secret level).

quick edit: Which reminds me, need to get back to MY ep2 project and stop being lazy(only have 4 maps done so far).

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So I managed to get the latest ic8.zip.

Here is a partial report ...

E2M1 ...

Using FLOOR0_2 for the floor of sectors 121-3 looks yuck. Use the correct flat FLOOR0_1.

E2M2 ...

Lines 572 and 573 need to be tagged and sector 100 given the same tag number ( SR Lift ).

E2M3 ...

1. Maybe upper/lower unpeg lines 122,114 ?
2. Maybe mid tex midvine2 for lines 261, 263, 268 and 270 and upper/lower unjpeg them ?
3. Change sector 94's floor to FLOOR0_2 to match sector 90's floor when sector 98 rises.
4. Lower unpeg line 727.

... will continue later ...

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Thanks for the reports, fixed/changed them and updated the preview. It's not critical so no need to get it if your playthrough is in progress.

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report update ...

E2M4 ...

1. Putting skinedge next to skinface on lines 1608/1611 and 1614/1612 looks bad IMHO.
2. Both the upper and lower unpegged flag is not necessary for lines 1776/1778.

E2M5 ...

1. MIDVINE2 should have also been on the back side middle of line 234 .
2. Check X and Y alignment on the uppers of lines 727, 749 and 750.
3. Sector 184 would look better with the flat FLAT10 IMO.
4. Lines 1121 and 1123 need to be tagged and sector 238 needs the same tag number (S1). This one is especially important for vanilla !
5. Lower unpeg lines 1513/1518.
6. Floor of sector 285 would look better with FLOOR7_2.
7. Chocolate doom renders a HOM in the ceiling of sector 310. I managed to fix this by increasing the ceiling height for sectors 309, 310 and 311. A height of 500 worked for me.
8. The tags on sectors 311 and 312 can be removed.

E2M9 ...

Pointless having sector 71 as a secret, since the player has to be here to exit.

E2M6 ...

Lines 111/113 need to be lower unpegged.

... I'm enjoying this. Keep it up !

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4.1 changed
4.2 used to be a door, but you couldn't fit through it so changed it to a lowering floor, but forgot to change unpeg, changed.

5.1 changed
5.2 changed
5.3 changed
5.4 this one slipped by, I could swear I fixed it in an earlier version.. noticed it myself on a doomsday playthrough. fixed.
5.5 changed
5.6 changed, was a leftover from the previous dominating flat
5.7 changed
5.8 changed, expanded the area from within and the tags stayed on accident.

9.1 For now it's still a secret for the purpose of giving 100% secrets on all ports (map contains no real secrets), if this turns out to be stupid/bad I'll include a couple secrets

6.1 changed. again, could swear I had unpegged them earlier.

Thanks for the reports, I updated the preview again because of the yellow door glitch in E2M5.

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I've only played the first two maps but it seems pretty enjoyable so far. True to the originals without being a blatant copy, with some clever switchbacks, upgraded difficulty and simple but attractive detailing in parts.

Some suggestions:

Block this detailing so the Caco corpse doesn't hang up there and look silly.

Is down here supposed to be a secret?

These poles are pretty ugly. I'd suggest spacing them out with green marble/brick in between. Less is more.

This Sergeant just stands around while you shoot his buddies, which looks odd. Also I'd just build the stairs here, rather than needing a switch, it'll keep the level flowing faster.

I'll keep playing and report back :)

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My brief opinions about E2M7 & E2M8.

E2M7: Start was very cheap as by the time you start the map, in barely 2 seconds you are already surround by 3 demons in a small room(strafing to the shotgun once the level begins helps thank goodness). The rest of the map is ok even through its smaller than the original Spawning Vats level.

E2M8: Essentially a smaller version of the original Tower of Babel and the Lost Souls are actually a nuisance while trying to kill the Cyberdemon in a good challenging way.

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Its good to see remakes of the classics but the texturing seems a little haphazard, I think in this regard it should'nt be faithful to the original! Good work though...

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Thanks for feedback, a new preview is up with some changes in a few levels + difficulty settings and multiplayer starts in all maps.

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I'd use a different texture on these stairs so they don't look like a big red blob.

I've played the next two levels. I really loved E2M3 though you definitely need more health after the Backpack trap, I was on 2% after, keep in mind this is a level where you need to run through slime to get some places.

It seemed kinda silly to be able to shoot these demons then open the door, you may as well just not give ~8 shells. Maybe move them further down the back of the room, and move the Blue Door forward so the player can't wake them early?

Just after the Blue Door, this doorway is a real chokepoint, suggest widening it to increase challenge. The next doorway is fine small, as the room inside has the flickering lights which works well.

E2M4 I'm having a tough time getting past. I really like what you've done, it feels like the original E2M3 remade with Episode 4 difficulty, but it seems easy to run out of health and ammo unless you follow a specific path which is a shame as it's such a beautifully nonlinear level otherwise.

A few traps are kinda unfair. The start would be very brutal without the secret shotgun, and the crusher at the Blue Key could be a bit easier to escape. (Also why is the sector behind the Blue Key marked secret?)

This is also another level where you have to spend at least a little time in the nukage. I'd either make the Stimpacks in the center room into Medkits, or throw in another radsuit or two.

Also it could do with a bit of lighting variation. Perhaps hang a big spotlight down in the center so the player can see the health vials?

The more I play this, the more I am liking it. I'll keep trying to pass E2M4 :P

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Got thru the rest of this. As mentioned via PM, E2M4 is cool now. E2M5 and E2M6 are great, really enjoyable levels. I particularly liked how much E2M6 recalled the original visually but was still your own design. I love what you did with the star layout on the Yellow Key pickup too, I always thought that area was odd in the IWAD level. The only suggestion I have for them is this area in E2M5:

You can't fit thru the middle walkway and the acute angle facing the player looks kinda off. It's no big deal anyway.

In E2M7 a couple of visual things:

You can walk up into this switch alcove when you don't really need to.

This teleport and its counterpart would look better with a more contrasting flat like red.

Mainly though I felt the battles in this level were the weakest of the whole episode. It seems very "compartmentalised" so the areas just have little fights you enter separately and don't really have much to do with each other. The doorways between these points are also way too choking to monster threats, eg:

Perhaps try opening things out a bit more?

Some other things:

This window could be bigger so the guys upstairs are more of a threat.

Nice architecture but these Barons need more footroom so they don't just dance around on the spot and not attack. Also the posts next to them give you heaps of cover on the left hand side. Maybe delete the post and have the beams coming out from the area where I'm standing in this shot?

These Lost Souls are too easy and they block this poor Pinkie in. I'd make this trap more lethal and also open it when the player grabs the adjacent key, not before.

Your take on E2M8 was also nice, it would be particularly good to pistol start considering all the Lost Souls and the only weapon being the RL. In fact, I love how much though you have put into Pistol starts for all the maps, the order of weapon pickups and amount of ammo you give make the maps heaps of fun, moreso than playing through one after the other.

So, overall I enjoyed this very much, it's been an honour to play. Your layouts are fresh and clever whilst harkening back to all the best parts of the IWAD Episode 2 without being a copy. Don't be afraid to be a bit meaner in your M7, it is supposed to be the "big finale" before the Cyberdemon after all ;)

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The Final Final preview (for reals) is out, your last chance to voice your opinion on the wad before it's out is here! Link in OP. Quick thing about ports: should be beatable on vanilla and doomsday, but there might be some (read:lots) of visual and a few gameplay bugs. All features tested working with Prboom and Zdoom.

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E2M7 ...

1. Sector 47 does damage but sector 84 does not but both have the flat blood1.

2. Switch at line 220 should have been SR , as the player is trapped at sector 36 if door sector 15 has opened and closed.

3. In Opengl, the backpack at sector 281 is partly rendered into the ceiling.

4. Again, for opengl, lines 948, 949, 950, 954, 951 and 952 would look better with a Y offset of 1

E2M8 ...

Just a personal preference... I thought that the switches, like the one at line 429, would be better as SR.

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Little thing. On E2M5, sector 233 (the monster pen in the exit room), doesn't lower in Vanilla Doom because the north most Sergeant is stuck in the wall.

In Vanilla Doom, a monster stuck in the ceiling of a sector, prevents it from lowering. Some ports change this behaviour.

Also, little nitpick, I'd give the player something for finding the caged Barron and add a visual clue to the teleporters that lead to the secret exit area; sectors 282-283 and sectors 304-308.

Also I'd question that the sky floor in the secret exit area looks a little out of place against the rest of the map.

I'd agree that E2M7 isn't quite as good as the levels that precede it.

Also, I'd nitpick that the start room of E2M8 seems a bit bare because of its size relative to the rest of the map.

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