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hardcore_gamer

Your thoughts on the "No rest for the Living" episode for the Xbox live arcade Doom 2

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I just played through the new Doom 2 episode called "No rest for the Living" that came free with the version of Doom 2 sold on the Xbox live arcade market place that was released today.

What are your thoughts on it?

I personally think it was a mixed bag. The episode starts fairly well with a fun tech base map, and the second map was also fun. The third map however was just so so and then its all downhill after that with a series of extremely bland looking hell maps that feature low levels of texture variety with allot of unaligned textures.

Allot of doomers have apparently been looking forward to play this episode since it was actually created by real level designers instead of casual WAD makers withing the Doom community, and sadly I think the fact that this wad WASN'T made by the Doom community may be the source of allot of the problems I had with it.

It appears that the level designers did not properly grasp (or they did not do enough playtesting) Doom's fighting mechanics since some of the level design and monster placement indicate that the levels have been designed to "look cool" rather then provide fun gameplay and it shows. This is really true in regards to monster placement, their were times where I found myself cursing at my TV because I simply could not grasp what made the level designer believe that "placing all of those monsters there in such a way as he did" makes sense and provide a fun challenge rather then just annoy the fuck out of the player.

I think I heard someone say something about how this episode was suppose to be for the hardcore, and that it was meant to be hard. This made me exited before I played the episode, because it made me expect something like E4 of the Ultimate Doom; a series of well designed maps that would prove very challenging thanks too clever uses of monsters and traps.

Instead it appears that the level designers simply resorted to cram as many monsters into the levels as possible and then force the player to fight them in narrow corridors and areas. Frustration ensued. When I wasn't cursing the level designers for the monster placement and cheap traps, I was getting killed off-screen by something I couldn't see.

Yay!

The final intermission screen I was rewarded with after beating the episode wasn't worth much either. I know it isn't exactly the most important part of what makes a level set fun, but it would have been nice if it had been something that would have made me proud of finally beating the episode instead of looking like something that was literally written in 30 seconds (the monsters are dead, you are a tough motherfucker, etc).

On the bright side, the first few levels were fairly fun. And finishing the episode gave me a Xbox live achievement as a nice little bonus. Hooray for me I guess.

Overall, its a fun episode that suffers from some issues, I would personally give it a 7.5/10

What are your thoughts on "No rest for the Living"?

EDIT: Also, I played this on UV, and I did not find the secret level.

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I thought the maps were great. I was expecting some crap maps used to lure people into buying it. They may not be the quality of some of the projects we have around today, but the engine is basically vanilla. Nice detail, gameplay, and style all around. Packed full of interesting secrets and monsters. The later maps did kinda break down though and the boss map was underdeveloped. I think one of my favs was vivisection.

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Randy87 said:

Nice detail, gameplay, and style all around. Packed full of interesting secrets and monsters. The later maps did kinda break down though and the boss map was underdeveloped.


Exactly.

The Episode actually started out really nice but then as it progressed I just found myself getting annoyed more then anything else.

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hardcore_gamer said:

free


If it was free you wouldn't have had to buy anything.

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I think it's awesome. Quite obviously the best 'official' release you can get.

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I think it's a very strong episode, a worthy addition to the Doom saga, and does stand up against some more recent user-made wads.

I found the difficulty to be somewhere between Plutonia and Alien Vendetta. MAP07 is near slaughter-style for a bit, but absolutely nothing that cannot be handled with a mad BFG rush.

Ammo balance was pretty tight. I ran out a few times, but then I'd find a pickup around the next corner usually, seeming to indicate a very careful balance that kept me on edge. The lack of backpacks is an interesting design decision IMO, since most wads these days throw one at you in MAP01. Bringing back the lower ammo limits as a gameplay factor is refreshing to me.

The boss map is a little underwhelming, with that I have to agree. But then I'm not sure it could totally live up to expectations without introducing a new monster, which they weren't going to do. At least they did do something a little interesting in having you try to hide from a Cyberdemon in dark narrow corridors where the environment adds greatly to the hazard of a 40' tall rocket launcher with goat legs. I can't really recall any other map that did this and could be taken seriously - the few that did were horrid D!ZONE maps with a lot less class.

My rating is 9/10.

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Quasar said:

At least they did do something a little interesting in having you try to hide from a Cyberdemon in dark narrow corridors where the environment adds greatly to the hazard of a 40' tall rocket launcher with goat legs. I can't really recall any other map that did this


Actually, I think the author of that map was either ripping off or giving homage to a secret boss map in Doom 64 called "cat and mouse" unless I am mistaken that looked and played very much the same.

Also, on what difficulty where you playing the episode on? If you were playing on something less then UV then you probably did not suffer from some of the issues I had with the episode.

But then again I guess peoples milage just varies.

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hardcore_gamer said:

Actually, I think the author of that map was either ripping off or giving homage to a secret boss map in Doom 64 called "cat and mouse" unless I am mistaken that looked and played very much the same.

Also, on what difficulty where you playing the episode on? If you were playing on something less then UV then you probably did not suffer from some of the issues I had with the episode.

But then again I guess peoples milage just varies.

I played on HMP. I do have a feeling that UV is probably quite frustrating unless you're a real Doom god, and I am not by a long shot ;)

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Quasar said:

I played on HMP. I do have a feeling that UV is probably quite frustrating unless you're a real Doom god, and I am not by a long shot ;)


I knew it!

I played through the whole thing from start to finish on UV, I guess that makes me a "real Doom god".

lol.

For everybody here who are showering the new episode with praise: If you are having loads of fun with the new episode, then that's all very well and all, but try beating it in UV if you want to go through the same kind of pain as I had to go through in order to finish it. The map "vivisection" had me cursing out loud.

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Quit your whining and play on HMP if you're struggling on UV.

EDIT: Any of the maps suitable for DM/dueling?

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Quasar said:

I think it's a very strong episode, a worthy addition to the Doom saga, and does stand up against some more recent user-made wads.


I think that too. As i said in another thread, this was made for a game console with a gamepad, not a pc with mouse/keyboard.

Quasar said:

Ammo balance was pretty tight. I ran out a few times, but then I'd find a pickup around the next corner usually, seeming to indicate a very careful balance that kept me on edge.


Depends on the skill level, on the lower levels the ammo is given very generous. There seems to be the health item placement more balanced. But that, i guess, is more a pro for that episode. It makes sense, to vary that stuff for different skill-levels.

Quasar said:

My rating is 9/10.


Seconded.

hardcore_gamer said:

Actually, I think the author of that map was either ripping off or giving homage to a secret boss map in Doom 64 called "cat and mouse" unless I am mistaken that looked and played very much the same.


Exactly what i thought, as i saw the section with the cybie, "cat and mouse" in a darker environment. But that changes, as soon as you switch the triggers in that section.

Quasar said:

I played on HMP. I do have a feeling that UV is probably quite frustrating unless you're a real Doom god, and I am not by a long shot ;)


UV was frustrating on Doom E4 on the 360 too. This is by far harder than playing on pc, cause the game pad isn't as fast and intuitive as a mouse. I wouldn't consider starting it on UV on the 360. Maybe later, but not for the first try.

Khorus said:

EDIT: Any of the maps suitable for DM/dueling?


I think, Map09 will give some really fast DMs. It is a wide, simple map with little dead ends, enough room for running and dodging.

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One thing I'm curious about: what type of music are they using in this episode? New tracks or tracks from the original games?

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Original, but much slower than the original score and not in the order, you would expect. For example, Into Sandy's City is used twice, before you even reach Map09.

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cybdmn said:

UV was frustrating on Doom E4 on the 360 too. This is by far harder than playing on pc, cause the game pad isn't as fast and intuitive as a mouse. I wouldn't consider starting it on UV on the 360. Maybe later, but not for the first try.

Yeah. E4M2 was torturous. If you couldn't do the BFG grab on the 360 I would have given up.

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cybdmn said:

I think that too. As i said in another thread, this was made for a game console with a gamepad, not a pc with mouse/keyboard.


What makes you believe the episode was developed with that in mind? I for one thought the layouts of the maps were too non-linear and that the monsters attacked from to many different directions for that to make sense, or at least on UV anyways.

cybdmn said:

Depends on the skill level, on the lower levels the ammo is given very generous. There seems to be the health item placement more balanced. But that, i guess, is more a pro for that episode. It makes sense, to vary that stuff for different skill-levels.


The episode is sometimes really strict on ammo on UV, though it never gets so hard that it isn't possible to find more ammo in one way or another.

cybdmn said:

Exactly what i thought, as i saw the section with the cybie, "cat and mouse" in a darker environment. But that changes, as soon as you switch the triggers in that section.


Yea, I actually found it sort of clever how lowering the areas made it easier to beat the cyberdemon by giving the player more breathing space.

cybdmn said:

UV was frustrating on Doom E4 on the 360 too. This is by far harder than playing on pc, cause the game pad isn't as fast and intuitive as a mouse. I wouldn't consider starting it on UV on the 360. Maybe later, but not for the first try.


I don't get it why people find it so hard to use the gamepad. I for one have almost no problems with using it at all, not even on the higher difficulties.

Khorus said:

Quit your whining and play on HMP if you're struggling on UV.


I like it how you ignore my points and instead just resort to the "omg what a pussy just lower the difficulty ya whiner!" kind of argument.

I played through the whole episode from start to finish on UV and won it fairly. Real difficulty is when the level designer throws the player into a tough situation and expects him deal with it while not getting killed. Fake difficulty is when the map insta-spawns a revenant right behind the player when he isn't looking giving him little to no chance to react until its too late thus resulting in tedious trial and error style gameplay. I can deal with the monsters them self's fairly easily, but one can only get killed by something that is off-screen so often before one starts of loose his patience.

Granted that this did not happen every 2 min, but it did happen often enough to suck a lot of the fun out of my play season.

neg!ke said:

Someone care to post some screenshots for non-Xbox people?


http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/026/026051/imgs_1.html

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So, firstly, you seem to say that you think the 360 maps need to be easier because the gamepad isn't as good as a keyboard and mouse.

Then when someone else says a keyboard and mouse is is easier to use than a gamepad, you say no it isn't.

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hardcore_gamer said:

What makes you believe the episode was developed with that in mind?


Maybe, because this episode was created while porting the game over to a game console?



Well, after finshing Map08 htere is a new text screen:

TROUBLE WAS BREWING AGAIN IN YOUR FAVORITE
VACATION SPOT... HELL. SOME CYBERDEMON
PUNK THOUGHT HE COULD TURN HELL INTO A
PERSONAL AMUSEMENT PARK, AND MAKE EARTH
THE TICKET BOOTH.

WELL THAT HALF-ROBOT FREAK SHOW DIDN'T
KNOW WHO WAS COMING TO THE FAIR. THERE'S
NOTHING LIKE A SHOOTING GALLERY FULL OF
HELLSPAWN TO GET THE BLOOD PUMPING...

NOW THE WALLS OF THE DEMON'S LABYRINTH
ECHO WITH THE SOUND OF HIS METALLIC LIMBS
HITTING THE FLOOR. HIS DEATH MOAN GURGLES
OUT THROUGH THE MESS YOU LEFT OF HIS FACE.

THIS RIDE IS CLOSED.

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cybdmn said:

Well, after finshing Map08 htere is a new text screen:

TROUBLE WAS BREWING AGAIN IN YOUR FAVORITE
VACATION SPOT... HELL. SOME CYBERDEMON
PUNK THOUGHT HE COULD TURN HELL INTO A
PERSONAL AMUSEMENT PARK, AND MAKE EARTH
THE TICKET BOOTH.

WELL THAT HALF-ROBOT FREAK SHOW DIDN'T
KNOW WHO WAS COMING TO THE FAIR. THERE'S
NOTHING LIKE A SHOOTING GALLERY FULL OF
HELLSPAWN TO GET THE BLOOD PUMPING...

NOW THE WALLS OF THE DEMON'S LABYRINTH
ECHO WITH THE SOUND OF HIS METALLIC LIMBS
HITTING THE FLOOR. HIS DEATH MOAN GURGLES
OUT THROUGH THE MESS YOU LEFT OF HIS FACE.

THIS RIDE IS CLOSED.

This is extremely silly.

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Yes, remember me of that episode in Left 4 Dead 2 with all these clowns and stuff. :-D

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Gez said:

This is extremely silly.

The text intermissions in Doom / Doom 2 are pretty silly too if you read them anew.

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For a guy who's pseudonym is "hardcore_gamer", he certainly doesn't seem that hardcore. ;)

Beating the new episode on UV was satisfying. It wasn't short and it wasn't easy, but it was a great ride. The architecture was great (and it didn't use any new textures, flats, and skies!). The gameplay was challenging and fun. I love how controlled the difficulty is. The only place to find a BFG is in map06, and that's requires effort to get. The only backpack you'll find is in the last level. No invulnerability sphere, no megasphere.

I was expecting a cheap trick by Nerve. Instead I find nine lengthy levels full of traps and awesome monster battles.

My favorite map was Vivisection. It had me running around the map. Quite fun.

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Linguica said:

The text intermissions in Doom / Doom 2 are pretty silly too if you read them anew.


There's silly and there's so bad you expect Horatio Caine to whip out the sunglasses

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I'm still playing through the new episode (haven't got at it today, still on MAP04), but so far the levels are a secretfest, which I love. Nerve really did their homework and included some secrets which give you a whole new section of level to play in. The SSG secret in MAP01 is the most elaborate I've seen since Doom64.

Looking forward to finishing it tonight or tomorrow.

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scalliano said:

The SSG secret in MAP01 is the most elaborate I've seen since Doom64.


Wait until you get the mentioned bfg in MAP06.
Really not easy to find, but if you grab the bfg, you will think, that you really deserve it this time.
I searched the whole map for the switches opening the pathway to it, after i killed every enemy.


Oh, and i just got the "huge guts" achievement at "tricks and traps". It is easy, but needs some time, and constant saving of the game.

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Gez said:

This is extremely silly.


Agreed. Final Doom also had intermission/ending screens that were rather silly, but this one looks like it was written by the author of the Doom comic.

Nes said:

For a guy who's pseudonym is "hardcore_gamer", he certainly doesn't seem that hardcore. ;)


Oh god damnit! I am getting more and more annoyed of having my user name used against me >_<

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Nes said:

For a guy who's pseudonym is "hardcore_gamer", he certainly doesn't seem that hardcore. ;)

You don't know the half of it. :p

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I think that text was a deliberate attempt to sound like the Doom Comic without going over the top. Come on, if you had a chance to write an intermission text for an OFFICIAL id product, wouldn't you take the opportunity? ;-)

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kristus said:

You don't know the half of it. :p


Excuuuuuuuuusse me!

I own Doom on almost half a dozen platforms! As well as the PC and the Xbox version of both Doom 3 and RE. I can't even count the number of times I have played this game.

Maes said:

I think that text was a deliberate attempt to sound like the Doom Comic without going over the top. Come on, if you had a chance to write an intermission text for an OFFICIAL id product, wouldn't you take the opportunity? ;-)


Or perhaps its just a strong case of "so bad its good".

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