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hardcore_gamer

Is the UK in denial regarding the EU's growing power?

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I often hear the UK talk about how the EU doesn't have a future and how all of its plans are just fantasies. But after reading this article (yes, I know it is more then a years old but that is beyond the point):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/4689736/Blueprint-for-EU-army-to-be-agreed.html

I have started to wonder if Britain's ministers/leadership actually knows shit and isn't just crying "you fags across the pond will never succeed!" every time the EU announces a new plan to further unify the continent.

What do you think? Are the plans of the EU all just a childish fantasy or is Britain's leadership in denial?

Note: This is not a thread about the possibility of Europe becoming some sort of a Confederate superpower or anything and neither is it a EU Vs America thread, so please stay on topic.

Discuss.

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Yeah, well, we'll see how the EU handles the PIGS financial crisis that political incompetence in Mediterranean countries (plus Ireland, which would deserve to be lumped with the PIGS, honestly), combined with criminal speculation conspiracy in banks like Goldman-Sachs, created recently. There are some who think this could kill the common currency. If the € fails, it'll be a huge blow to the EU.

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Gez said:
created recently.

You really think this was created recently? At most, those factors were catalyzers in an ongoing process. It might well be the way the world economy "works" in the 21st century :p

A parallel may be the middle ages, when mercenaries ran rampant over Europe. Now it isn't mercenary groups (okay, in some senses that happens too) but financial groups.

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TheDarkArchon said:

Most people in Britain are very, VERY Euroskeptic.


I know, but does Britain's claims actually hold water? It annoys me when people keep yelling "this is NEVER going to happen" simply out of mere spite towards EU rather then because they actually know stuff.

Britain's leadership keeps claiming that the idea of a united European union is stupid and silly, and the no union army will ever come to exist, and yet all the while the EU keeps proving the wrong (not every time of course, and I know a lot of EU's goals haven't been met yet but they are going there).

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myk said:

You really think this was created recently?

The crisis over the euro is recent. The underlying causes are not (and it's not like anybody anywhere is trying to remedy them, so they're there to stay).

Global economy has been jumping from crisis to crisis with clockwork regularity, each one feeding the next so it looks like a single giant continual crisis that has been lasting for well over a decade now. But up to now, it looked like the euro did its job well in protecting European economies from the brunt of it. Heck, not too long ago, some Briton economists were even having second thoughts about keeping the sterling pound. Not anymore.

That's what I was referring to.

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Many people in many European countries are quite skeptical about closer European integration, even in those countries that tend to be portrayed as being all for it.

Recent events don't look too good for the notion that closer European integration is inevitable or desirable. The UK is placed culturally, economically and politically in between the US and mainland Europe. This is a valuable and unique position that makes it of particular value to both. Why should this be thrown away?

I don't really see where "denial" comes into this. If the British people don't want to be involved in closer ties with the rest of Europe, isn't that something that is up to them? Ah, I see, you're from Iceland, and I guess it's a popular view at present that Iceland was in denial that it could stand alone and not seek closer economic integration with Europe. It doesn't make too much sense to project that onto the world's 6th biggest economy.

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Well, Iceland's economic policy was a smaller, exaggerated version of the UK's.

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Grazza said:

I don't really see where "denial" comes into this. If the British people don't want to be involved in closer ties with the rest of Europe, isn't that something that is up to them?


I think you misunderstood me, not wanting to be a part of the EU and actually pretending that it will never grow into anything of significance isn't the same thing.

I for one don't want Iceland to come anywhere near the EU for reasons I don't intend to discuss on this thread, but does that mean I refuse to accept that fact that the EU may grow into a power to be reckoned with sometime in the future? No.

What the British appear to be doing is that they are downplaying the importance and power of the EU because they despise it so much.

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Gez said:There are some who think this could kill the common currency. If the € fails, it'll be a huge blow to the EU.

Indeed. And there are plenty of people saying that it could well happen.

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And as those people have all the power, it probably will happen...or if it doesn't it'll continue to generate enough fear in the markets to weaken the euro enough for it to lose it's high standing, dragging us (and probably other non-euro EU countries) with it.

And which currency is the big winner out of all this? You guessed it...the one that ensures that with this behaviour, oil prices will continue to rise without them actually rising.

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Heh - the two main forces driving the share and money markets are greed and fear. Whenever either sentiment dominates the marketplace, otherwise rational traders adopt a herd mentality - then the rush is on to buy or sell. While I've no doubt a certain amount of FUD is created by major banks and institutional investors who hope to profit from unnecessary panic trading, it's also possible for them to get caught up in the rush.

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The Ultimate DooMer said:

And which currency is the big winner out of all this? You guessed it...the one that ensures that with this behaviour, oil prices will continue to rise without them actually rising.

Yeah, funny how noone's worried about California going bankrupt influencing the dollar globally, even though its economy is 6 times larger than Greeces.

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