Hexen: Scourge of Viscerus Needs Feedback [RELEASED]

[MTrop]

So, I started making this Hexen hub back in 2004/5-ish (before my contributions to CC3) and I lost interest in it and never finished it. But since it was 90% done anyway, I decided to finish up the last few bits of it recently. So, here it is, pre-release. I think I've got all of the bugs ironed out, but there's probably a few that I have missed.

It designed for Single Player, Co-op, AND Deathmatch.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that ZDoom 2.4.1 is required. Sorry.

UPDATE (7/2/10):
RELEASED (idGames Link)

A walkthrough in the form of a checklist is included.

SCREENSHOTS:

MAP01: JOURNEY Shot 1 Shot 2 Shot 3

MAP02: BLACKENED TEMPLE Shot 1 Shot 2 Shot 3

MAP03: FORGOTTEN ARCHIVES Shot 1 Shot 2 Shot 3

MAP04: FOETID NECROPOLIS Shot 1 Shot 2 Shot 3

MAP05: MURKY WETLANDS Shot 1 Shot 2 Shot 3

MAP06: SLEET AND CINDER Shot 1 Shot 2 Shot 3

MAP07: INNER SANCTUM Shot 1 Shot 2 Shot 3

[JadedLexi]

Love those screenshots! We really need more Heretic and Hexen stuff. :)

[kristus]

Downloaded. Tried Map01 a bit so far. A bit linear but it's fun.

[DeathevokatioN]

Screenshots look great!!! I'll download this tomorrow and give it a try.

[MTrop]

kristus said:

Downloaded. Tried Map01 a bit so far. A bit linear but it's fun.

MAP01's supposed to be. The hub starts at MAP02.

[Vermil]

Map01 wasn't a great first impression and I might have gone for darker lighting, but it was a pretty fun hub.

Though I thought all the decorate mini-bosses were out of place and unescerry. You've done what many people do that I consider poor game play; make them run around at high speed, spamming missiles every where, without good reason.

[MTrop]

Vermil said:

Map01 wasn't a great first impression and I might have gone for darker lighting, but it was a pretty fun hub.

Though I thought all the decorate mini-bosses were out of place and unescerry. You've done what many people do that I consider poor game play; make them run around at high speed, spamming missiles every where, without good reason.

I figured that I needed something in the hub in order for players that play Hexen a lot to fight something new, but having the player fight a lumbering, slow monster is pretty much everything else in Hexen. If I were to change the Acolytes, what should I do differently? Slow their speed? Change their attack?

[Vermil]

Mista_T said:

I figured that I needed something in the hub in order for players that play Hexen a lot to fight something new, but having the player fight a lumbering, slow monster is pretty much everything else in Hexen. If I were to change the Acolytes, what should I do differently? Slow their speed? Change their attack?

HeXen doesn't have any super fast monsters, instead, they feature bad guys with "dodging" abilities instead.

Nothing wrong with adding a super fast monster of course, but I feel your Acolyte foe didn't gel in the world.

I would consider removing the Maulotaur battle from the final map as it seems like padding; it's one arena to much and seemed bolted on the plot (the Herisarch doesn't mention them in it's conversation with you, yet it mentions the other bosses). I would instead use the Maulotaurs in the place of the Libary map Acolyte.

I would also consider replacing the Swamp map Acolyte with something that appears on the pillars and teleports between them ala D'sparil (i.e not just teleporter lines).

On the Graveyard map, I might consider a beefed up Heretic Disciple.

And of course, there are the Wyvern's in the place of an Acolyte on the Ice map.

[CodenniumRed]

Either way, very VERY good work! Glad you've released this!!!!

[MTrop]

I'll probably replace the Twin Maulotaur fight in Map07 with some kind of "intermission room" between the last deathkings fight and the upcoming one. No fun if the player doesn't get a breather.

I think, looking back, that the Acolyte moves far too quickly. I'll slow him down - and maybe change the projectile attack.

I agree that the Archives needs some different kind of fight, but if I put a Maulotaur there, it'll need more room to move and I'll need to change the map a bit. Perhaps I should just remove them completely.

The Disciple Boss is a good idea, but instead of just beefing him up, he should move around by blinking from one place to another (with a slow wander), with a sound at his disappearance and reappearance, so the player can track his movement. Maybe he'll have two attacks. A standard one, and a more powerful one with a warning.

EDIT: On second thought, the Disciple should replace the Acolyte completely, as he would fit the world not only artistically, but behaviorally.

Thoughts?

[Vermil]

Well, I took on the Libary Acolyte outside by the portal, where a Maulotaur or two would fit fine.

Certinally, a Heretic Disciple would be more fitting than the current Acolyte. But the reason I only suggested him for the Graveyard map, is that the Disciple looks more undead than most of HeXen's bad guys.

I suppose it depends on how much you wish to change; wheter you want to give each of the three maps that currently end with the same, IMO not fitting in, boss, a unique boss (both visually and/or in behaviour).

[MTrop]

The thing about the Maulotaur as a hub level mid-boss is that he could be a little too beefy, depending on when the player fights him. You engage it too early, and he can exhaust your resources, you fight him too late, and a single one is not a big enough challenge.

And if I provide the player with the resources necessary to fight him when he appears, it loses its impact as an imposing threat.

Hmm... I'll have to think about this some more...

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Good points:

The maps are interwoven fairly well in the hub in terms of keys & puzzle items. The swamp map was nicely done, and you managed to create some different themes in some of the other maps. (not easy with the limited texture set, most of the hubs I've played just regurgitate swamp/fire/ice/steel)

The new monsters - the acolyte looks bad (colour-wise) but plays alright and I'd still rather fight him than yet another heresiarch. And there's nothing wrong with his speed either, every other mob in Hexen crawls along at a snails pace...what's wrong with a fast mob to make you dance? The bosses are cool too, again I'm glad that Viscerus wasn't a heresiarch...that would be boring.

Difficulty isn't too bad either, minus the point below.

Bad points:

The first map is horrible for cleric...throwing in large numbers of ranged mobs in a small space and expecting us to kill them all with a mace (large amounts of flechettes won't help if there's no room) is not a good idea.

Too many centaur leaders...especially in the first map.

Repeat appearances of bosses...a different one for each map would be better.

You might want to solve the issue of the death wyverns flying into each other...I solved a similar issue by making them non-solid.

Overall:

A bit too 96-ish for my liking (new bosses aside ofc) but it's not a bad effort.

[Fenriswolf]

I only played the first map up to know but i liked the combination of the oldschool-style and the descreet use of ZDoom features. Seems good to me!

[Philnemba]

Downloading now and give some feedback tomorrow.

[MTrop]

The Ultimate DooMer said:
The first map is horrible for cleric...throwing in large numbers of ranged mobs in a small space and expecting us to kill them all with a mace (large amounts of flechettes won't help if there's no room) is not a good idea.

I had hoped to mitigate this with the additional Discs of Repulsion in order to help spread out crowding enemies, but the Cleric still has early trouble. I'll remove some of the projectile attackers, at least for the lower skill levels.

Too many centaur leaders...especially in the first map.

This will be changed. Especially since the Cleric has additional trouble with them early on. I'm still kind of a novice at monster placement in Hexen.

Repeat appearances of bosses...a different one for each map would be better.

I've got an idea how to solve this: three (or four) different "Disciple" bosses, each with different colors (to distinguish them from each other) and each of them have different styles of attack. The areas near the portals will have to be changed to accommodate better conditions for boss battles. I'll move the Necropolis Boss to the beginning (with a new arena, obviously). I also suppose I should have them call A_ClassBossHealth for co-op battles (and lower Viscerus's base health for each form and call this).

You might want to solve the issue of the death wyverns flying into each other...I solved a similar issue by making them non-solid.

Will they still collide with weapons if I make them non-solid? I tried putting their map path points at separate heights, and this worked for the most part, but they do end up colliding occasionally. It sometimes happens if they end up moving out of their path to attack the player.


Anyways, thanks for the feedback, everyone! I'll be fixing this up soon with all of your suggestions and feedback!

[Gez]

The Ultimate DooMer said:

The first map is horrible for cleric...throwing in large numbers of ranged mobs in a small space and expecting us to kill them all with a mace (large amounts of flechettes won't help if there's no room) is not a good idea.

Still easier than Serpent Resurrection with Mage. :p

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Mista_T said:

Will they still collide with weapons if I make them non-solid?

I tested it with mine and I could still hit it with weapons and shots, so it should be fine.

Gez said:

Still easier than Serpent Resurrection with Mage. :p

But at least there the ranged mobs are few, you have lots of room to move in, you can go anywhere you want to evade and the weapons are on that same map :P

[Philnemba]

Played through the first map of the hub so far with the Cleric. Only compliants was that the Slaughtaurs were a pain in the ass to get around(I hate those guys) and that room where you hit a switch with spawning Chaos serpents was difficult(although saving and using a combination of Fléchettes and Disc of Repulsions help me survive). Also I love the music choice ;)

[Gez]

Yes, slaughtaurs are a pain.

I didn't find out how to lower the pillars with teleport devices in the necropolis. Got a little bit confused looking for the next step sometimes, but overall less mazy and switchhunty than Hexen or Deathkings.

Yeah, the archvile-like acolyte looked out of place. Their projectiles were a bit too simple-looking as well.

"Deliberately" is spelled with an 'e' between the 'b' and the 'r'. ;)

[MTrop]

Philnemba said:

Played through the first map of the hub so far with the Cleric. Only compliants was that the Slaughtaurs were a pain in the ass to get around(I hate those guys) and that room where you hit a switch with spawning Chaos serpents was difficult(although saving and using a combination of Fléchettes and Disc of Repulsions help me survive). Also I love the music choice ;)

My job is clear: remove/reduce the number of Slaughtaurs in MAP01.

The Chaos Serpents in the fight chamber on normal difficulty may be too much. Should I reduce their number or add more Flechettes/Discs?

It seems like the Cleric has the biggest problem with the first map. Do you think he needs additional artifact assistance in Single Player?


Also, this may seem like an odd request, but does anyone want to do Deathmatch testing? All of the maps get additional areas and halls for DM and I want to see if they offer a decent DM experience or better map flow (running through them by myself is not exactly the best way to judge).

EDIT:

Gez said:

I didn't find out how to lower the pillars with teleport devices in the necropolis. Got a little bit confused looking for the next step sometimes, but overall less mazy and switchhunty than Hexen or Deathkings.

Each pillar lowers during the "fireball inferno," but only one at a time and on the opposite side of the matching gearbox for the gear you just picked up. If you didn't grab them then, you don't get another chance.

Yeah, the archvile-like acolyte looked out of place. Their projectiles were a bit too simple-looking as well.

The acolyte will be replaced with (hopefully) better bosses.

"Deliberately" is spelled with an 'e' between the 'b' and the 'r'. ;)

Easiest thing to fix. Done. :)

[Vermil]

Mista_T said:

My job is clear: remove/reduce the number of Slaughtaurs in MAP01.

Indeed, I'd replace some of the Slaughtaurs on Map01 with Centaurs for the Fighter and more so the Cleric. But for the Mage I would consider keeping the number of ranged foes the same, otherwise the Mage will find things too easy.

I suggest replacing some or all of the Slaughtaurs on Map01 for the Mage with Choas Serpnents, since I think they will be more fun to fight when you only have the wand.

[MTrop]

Okay, so far, here is the list of changes:

• Remove some Projectile guys from MAP01.
  
• Cleric has a tougher time in MAP01 than other classes.
  > Reduce long range enemies or add artifacts.
  
• Try to dilute the number of Slaughtaurs in higher skill levels.
  > MAP01, MAP02, MAP03, MAP04. MAP05, MAP06, MAP07
  
• Change the first two Viscerus forms' Health and use A_ClassBossHealth.
  
• Create Disciple Bosses; remove the Acolyte. Remember to use A_ClassBossHealth.
  > Boss 1, Boss 2, Boss 3, Boss 4
  > MAP07 End battles will change because of this.
  
• Add "boss arenas" for the following maps.
  > MAP03, MAP04, MAP05, MAP06
  
• Change MAP07's Maulotaur section into a "break room".
  
• Make Death Wyverns in MAP06 non-solid.
  
• "Deliberately" is misspelled in WIN2MSG.
  

Did I miss anything?

[MTrop]

See OP. Lots of changes.

- PK3 instead of WAD.
- Added areas to maps.
- Made MAP01 more "Cleric friendly."
- Added different minibosses and changed MAP01 ending to introduce them.
- Changed Penultimate boss forms and attacks/stages.
- Removed Acolyte.
- Removed Maulotaur battle.

What I want testers to concentrate on are little, nit-picky details. Or deathmatch gameplay.

[MTrop]

Sorry for the bump, but am I to assume that this is ready for release?

[Ichor]

In the last map where you fight the three human bosses at the same time, if they ever hit each other, they will forget all about you and attack each other until there's only one weak enemy left.

[MTrop]

Ichor said:

In the last map where you fight the three human bosses at the same time, if they ever hit each other, they will forget all about you and attack each other until there's only one weak enemy left.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to help this. Is there a ZDoom actor flag that will correct this?

[Gez]

Yeah, NOTARGET, like the Arch-Vile has.

[MTrop]

Thanks, Gez. I knew there was a flag, I just forgot what it was called.

[Vermil]

I like the new Herisarchs.

That said. A small bug with the Herisarch battle; if something is blocking the spawn point, the next one won't spawn.

Perhaps have each Herisarch spawn into a small sector outside the map with a teleport line in it that brings it to the main arena, so it will always appear, once the spot in the arena is vacant.

Also, I think having Korax teleport might be a good idea, as currently his battle isn't really a huge step up from the Herisarchs.