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fruitybubbles17

Hardest WAD??

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Alright so I realize there are a lot of extremely hard WADs out there, such as Hell Revealed, etc.... but what, in your opinion, would have to be the hardest non-joke WAD for Ultimate Doom or Doom II?

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Search through the forums and you'll find tons of threads like this, with a myriad of suggestions.

Common ones include (just search dsda or idgames):

Death Destiny Maps (Nochance, etc)
Eaxt
DV I & II (although certain people don't think II is all that hard)
TimeofDeath's maps (Tom19, etc)
Sunder
Extremely large maps such as the last map in 32innail.wad by Alexander S, or the last map in oneweek.wad.

Also, it really depends on what your view of "difficult" is. It's a very subjective term. Some players struggle with slaughtermaps, while others struggle with maps that give very little health/ammo or room to maneuver (like the 1024 clau wads or the later maps in Cchest 1).

I'm sure the others can give you more examples, but these are just the suggestions off the top of my head.

Edit: It's actually map 05 in 32innail.wad, not the last.

Edit 2: you could also try huge ass slaughtermaps with thousands upon thousands of monsters that would take you hours to beat, but some of these are bordering on the "joke wad" category:

Holy Hell
Nostril.wad (http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?postid=880196#post880196)

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It's pretty hard (:P) to name the hardest wad or map since it also depends on map and player style, for example slaughter experts might find really hard normal style maps harder while normal style experts might find slaughter maps harder. Also things like infighting or BFG skills might influence how people view certain maps' difficulty (a BFG-centric map will be harder for a BFG newbie while a BFG expert might not have much of a problem with it).

Anyway, Insane Gazebo's Sunder is pretty hard, and if you want to try a hard non-slaughter style map, try playing Mionic Donut's map from this wad (map06) without secrets. :P It's possible, but damn hard.

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Qaatar said:

Search through the forums and you'll find tons of threads like this, with a myriad of suggestions.

Common ones include (just search dsda or idgames):

Death Destiny Maps (Nochance, etc)
Eaxt
DV I & II (although certain people don't think II is all that hard)
TimeofDeath's maps (Tom19, etc)
Sunder
Extremely large maps such as the last map in 32innail.wad by Alexander S, or the last map in oneweek.wad.

Also, it really depends on what your view of "difficult" is. It's a very subjective term. Some players struggle with slaughtermaps, while others struggle with maps that give very little health/ammo or room to maneuver (like the 1024 clau wads or the later maps in Cchest 1).

I'm sure the others can give you more examples, but these are just the suggestions off the top of my head.

Edit: you could also try huge ass slaughtermaps with thousands upon thousands of monsters that would take you hours to beat, but some of these are bordering on the "joke wad" category:

Holy Hell
Nostril.wad (http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?postid=880196#post880196)


Lol Snowberry wouldn't load nostril.wad , it just froze up my computer... I need a new computer I guess

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Download prboom+ and use glboom+ instead. Much easier way of watching demos anyways.

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THings like weapon/ammo/health/armor balance may change balance drastically.

Yeah, there are a lot of slaughter maps that pit you vs literally several 1000s of monsters at once, but:

  • Most of them die in infighting, instead of focusing on you. Even if they ALL did focus on you, you can only be attacked by so many monsters at once, even at a distance.
  • You are usually given a BFG and invuln sphere right off the bad in such spheres.
  • Often such maps have large, open spaces and beating them involves wading through hordes with the BFG and just running for the exit ASAP, or from one invuln sphere/ammo cache to the next. You don't have to keep in the mid of a fray all the time.
On the opposite, some pretty normal maps with just a handful of monsters may cause you to die time and again because of subtleties such as:
  • Not giving you any armor until late. This can make a LOT of difference: a single imp can burn up to 22 HP off you if unarmored, and make short work of you in 3 seconds if it gets in melee range.
  • Not giving you "powerful" weapons for a while. This may mean not giving you anything more powerful than a SG/CG until the mid of the level.
  • Forcing you into small corridors and then trapping you between e.g. Knights or Revenants. At such close ranges, single-hit deaths are common, even with mid-to-high health (a revenant fireball has the highest damage of all single standard projectyles, up to 80HP). One mistake and you're dead with no possibility of dodging.
  • Forcing you to play a tightly timing-based and ammo conservation-based game, where a single mistake can leave you open to a quick death/practically weaponless.
The latter kind of maps can be much more frustrating than the former, IMO.

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Shai'tan's Luck (starting on map 20). The last 4 maps are brutal.
Plutonia 2's later maps
chordg.wad
Anything Hell Revealed related
LOINK.wad

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I'd like to correct Maes a little - max imp damage is 24 HP (it is 3*x where x is a random number between 1 and 8). But more importantly, I'd like to express my amazement: why are threads such as this so popular and they emerge once in a couple of months or even weeks? I mean, let's imagine I have 20 WADs. If all of them are "too easy", then:
- I can use -fast, -respawn parameter.
- I can increase difficulty setting (OK, in case in most of you, it means change "UV" to "NM" ;) )
- I can add extra requirements: Tyson, no plasma weapons, no secrets, etc.
- I can enjoy them being as easy as they are... Challenges are fun, extreme challenges can be frustrating.

OK, that's what I wanted to say I guess.

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Graf Zahl said:

You fail it! :P


Actually meant alien vendetta now that i look back on my post, but i won't skewer it seeing that a mouse-only user called me out.

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Which reminded me, Hell Revealed one was the last WADs I played start-to-end with the keyboard only - including freelook! I found it a reasonable challenge.

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Hell's Vendetta said:

Actually meant alien vendetta now that i look back on my post, but i won't skewer it seeing that a mouse-only user called me out.

Graf Zahl is a programmer both by hobby and as job, but what's important is that he is a Doom PROGRAMMER. Belonging to that category of Doomers. So, it's irrelevant to take into consideration Graf's playing controls when comparing game prowess.

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printz said:

Graf Zahl is a programmer both by hobby and as job, but what's important is that he is a Doom PROGRAMMER. Belonging to that category of Doomers. So, it's irrelevant to take into consideration Graf's playing controls when comparing game prowess.

so what? that makes him exactly 1x the player he is. actually programmers are usually average players at best, because they don't get to train the game so much. also their opinion on wads isn't superior to anyone else's. i agree with grahf that pl2 doesn't have 'the hardest map' contender, but that's it. your rant was irrelevant itself.

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dew said:

actually programmers are usually average players at best, because they don't get to train the game so much.

That's exactly what I was trying to say, man.

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Well, there is a HARD.WAD in the archives, but sadly no "HARDEST.WAD". Oh well...there's always "MEGAHARD.WAD" to keep you happy ;-)


And...I wonder if this one's "hardness" is anywhere near the author's ego. SHRTHARD = Short and Hard? Well, whatever.

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Maes said:

Forcing you to play a tightly timing-based and ammo conservation-based game, where a single mistake can leave you open to a quick death/practically weaponless.


*cough*Demon Eclipse*cough*

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Hell Revealed 2 is pwnz0r. If you set it to hurt me plenty or UV, prepare yourself to become a chesse.

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Kaiser said:

kaiser_14.wad... if anyone cares..


Great map, thanks to this reminder I finally did a proper max run on it today, all in all a fun few hours of Dooming. :)

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Scythe... Scythe 2...

Toward the end of course. Not at the beginning.

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Trust me, Chillax is WAY hardest than all wads mentioned in this thread combined. Also, it's easily the hardest wad ever. (Play MAP20, MAP21, MAP23, MAP24, MAP35 or MAP40 and your jaw will drop).

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