No Girls on the Internet?

[Joshy]

I don't think he is saying you should do something but the point was you were saying 'harden the fuck up', effectively stemming any possiblity for change and saying one should accept being 'butthurt' (as some might perceive it to be) or in other words, being offended. Not saying 'just accept what he/she said about you, and whatever is happening around you and here, have a tissue' would mean better chances of changes to occur.

[Deeforce]

eargosedown said:

I didn't exactly give out to anyone the fact that I was a girl

I don't believe you, you are a boy :-P!

eargosedown said:

Is this why there are "no girls on the internet"?

Here you revealed yourself as male :-P... for me at least >:-()! No girls on Doomworld, wtf?

kristus said:

"don't ask don't tell" motto of the US army.

That motto is great. No stupid claptrap in the US Army :-)!
@Mr. T: this picture is much better :-P!

[GreyGhost]

Mr. T said:

If some kid wants to make fun of someone for being a girl or gay or whatever in an anonymous environment where no one will ever know who they are, then who am I to stop them? Why should I give a fuck? Because if I don't nip that behavior in the bud, then they might call me a fag too?

From the relative safety of my anonymous environment - I nominate "I'm a fag" as Mr. T's custom title. Anyone care to second it?

[kristus]

Mr. T said:

TBH, that's something that their mom should deal with and not me.

If some kid wants to make fun of someone for being a girl or gay or whatever in an anonymous environment where no one will ever know who they are, then who am I to stop them? Why should I give a fuck? Because if I don't nip that behavior in the bud, then they might call me a fag too?

boo hoo, someone pass the tissues please.

Their mom don't run forums and/or online game communities.
Do you think those same guys talk to their mother the same way they talk to people online?

If I followed you around, trolled and mocked you every chance I got. Would you stand for that? Would you just carry on and "suck it up"? I doubt that. You'd probably go whaling at the admins asking them to ban my ass. But since this isn't your ass we're talking about, you don't care. Fine, you don't need to care. But why are you then taking part in the discussion? You obviously care enough to ask the person that gets shit for simply being a girl and having the nerve to not hide that to harden up and suck it down. Basically you're choosing the side of the bullies.

[Aliotroph?]

Indeed. That's why I was mad at Technician. Suggesting people grow a thick skin is all good and well, but at the same time the bastards causing trouble need to get booted -- preferably with a real boot. Asking people to pretend their sexes don't exist and to ignore everything is unreasonable, especially since the game at hand isn't likely to be the only topic of discussion for very long.

I expected Mr. T's reaction to my comment from somebody. That was a rather nasty comment on my part. Kristus is correct, though.

It's amusing how many guys have tried the flirting thing on me when I had a female avatar. Apparently they thought that pic of Winona Ryder was a pic of me. (I don't have an avatar here atm because my username breaks the control panel as far as I can tell.) Of course, the worst offender was Mystic, but he was doing it because he knew the newbies had no clue.

[dew]

GreyGhost said:

I nominate "I'm a fag" as Mr. T's custom title.

the tough talk helps him stay in the locker room the longest he can and enjoy the view.

[Deeforce]

dew said:

the tough talk helps [Mr. T] stay in the locker room the longest he can and enjoy the view.

Mr. T doesn't stay in the locker room, because he wants to be in a bright area with a comp and a beer in the hand :-P! Let's party!

[Maes]

Whatever, dude.

[bytor]

Hell use it to your advantage. Your macros could be very distracting. Doesn't have to be lewd, either. Stuff that makes them stop and think.

[Phobus]

ITT: Mr T is an arsehole.

Anyway, actually ontopic - yes, eargosedown, men do have to take large buckets of abuse too. I think the key difference is that its not about their gender. However, sexuality, race, age, game skill, voice and just about everything else come into play online. I remember when I used to play online with voice chat (as a 15 year old, naturally) there used to be shit storms all the time and there was a surprising (for me) number of hurt feelings overall. The vocal and retarded minority do seem to fuck it all up royally when it boils down to it. Everybody else ends up playing along to be accepted because it's "cool". I consider myself quite fortunate because the only times it happened to me I was more than readily equipped to win the flamewar or (rarely, I'll admit) shrug it off. I think the same mentality is prevelant in a lot of groups of people but it comes to the fore in different ways. With the anonymity of the internet everybody feels they can get away with being an arse - as a result, a lot of people will be an arse. However it comes across, I know a lot of people end up very depressed or otherwise emotionally traumatised as a result.

[Remilia Scarlet]

I agree with Kristus. If someone's intent on punching you, ignoring them won't make them stop. In a situation like this, you shouldn't have to run away from them by masking your identity out of fear, either (if it was for privacy, that would be a different matter).

I also have to wonder, how does this behavior keep perpetuating? Does it really all come through peers and family? I see a lot of remarks online (and hear a lot offline as well), which seem to be made with a joking or sarcastic intent, that poke at traditionally discriminatory themes. Things like blaming something on the Jews, or women should be in the kitchen, or African-American people like fried chicken, whatever. It's like they're mentioned to point out the absurdity of the claim. But in the end I think they do more harm than good by keeping the discrimination alive and spreading it to others. Sarcasm is sometimes hard to detect even in real life. It takes a lot of skill to do this right.

Edit: I also agree with Phobus. Men take crap like this, too. We're expected to act in a very manly way, otherwise we're not considered successful, skilled, or likewise. I don't have any gaming-related examples, but I can still relate. Growing up I was regularly told that men should take their wive's car in to get the oil changed because that was a man's job. Why? Is there some anti-oil-change gene that only occurs in women? Same thing with being a stay-at-home parent. Does it absolutely have to be the woman who stays home? What if I have to do stuff like that because of the situation? Hell, what if that's what I enjoy?

[Mr. T]

Deeforce said:

Mr. T doesn't stay in the locker room, because he wants to be in a bright area with a comp and a beer in the hand :-P! Let's party!

Finally someone who gets me! Woohoo games and booze lol

/e: I don't really think that I have been such an asshole. It's more like, being socially adjusted. If u can't laugh at someone saying retarded things on the internet, how are you going to handle living in the real world? There's no admin to whine to when it's your boss or spouse Is treating you like shit, so what are you going to do in that situation? Have a breakdown?

[PRIMEVAL]

Face it, guys who play games are afraid of girls. Something they're not used to. :P

[Gez]

Mr. T said:

I don't really think that I have been such an asshole.

Right. Here's the TL;DR version of the thread:

eargosedown paraphrased:
It doesn't bother me that much because I've grown used to it and have a thick skin; but why are girls always attacked in multiplayer game communities and are boys likewise harassed?

Mr. T paraphrased:
Bluh bluh grow a thicker skin bluh bluh

Ignoring what the OP said and responding to her in a way that demonstrates that your comments in topics are just clichéd knee-jerk reactions with no real thought behind them does make you an asshole.

[40oz]

The way I see it there are "soft" guys who are really sensitive towards women and have lots of girlfriends and then there are "douchebag" guys who act the same way to girls as they do to their guy friends, if not worse. This sounds retarded but it usually works in their favor because there are a lot of dumb bitches who act like they hate it but they always come back for more. Soft guys never understand it.

[Use]

Gez said:

Ignoring what the OP said and responding to her in a way that demonstrates that your comments in topics are just clichéd knee-jerk reactions with no real thought behind them does make you an asshole.

Well what the hell can she do about it? I mean really. Start some kind of crusade against treating people shitty on the internet? People are dicks. Can't change it, can't control it. Crawl under a rock and weep or go on about your business, those are her options.

[Maes]

Use3D said:

Well what the hell can she do about it? I mean really. Start some kind of crusade against treating people shitty on the internet? People are dicks. Can't change it, can't control it. Crawl under a rock and weep or go on about your business, those are her options.

What's the worst thing that can happen, an eargosedown is emotionally destroyed and disappointed with the Internet? Mr. T can live with that.

[boris]

"On the internet men are men, women are men and children are FBI agents."

[Sharessa]

To answer her question, it's a bunch of guys who are terrible with women and in anger have to lash out while sporting boners of rage. I myself am terrible with women, but I've learned to deal with it. Also, about half my friends are women, and I play D&D and WoW with them, so it would be a bit weird if I couldn't handle women on teh interbutz.

Also, I have a friend with a similar problem. She has a deep (sexy) voice and over vent and the like, people often think she's actually a guy (she's always sounded female to me, but whatever). Some guys have gone into rages and called her names before, too. In an unrelated note, she can also kick any guy's ass in Smash Bros., Mario Kart, or Metroid Prime.

[Use]

Don't forget mob mentality, one person starts in and the rest follow. It's just stupidity and immaturity and the safety of anonymity. Play with your friends, drop the shitty online communities if it's really that much of a bother.

[Deeforce]

PRIMEVAL said:

Face it, guys who play games are afraid of girls. Something they're not used to. :P

And why the fuck ain't I a virgin anymore ???? :-()!

eargosedown paraphrased:
It doesn't bother me that much because I've grown used to it and have a thick skin; but why are girls always attacked in multiplayer game communities and are boys likewise harassed?

That is not true, because the ones calling themself girls are old men :-()! And flame wars are just as normal as brushing teeth(...)!

Mr. T said:

THE INTERNET IS SERIOUS BUSINESS

I disagree, the internet is a playing field for every gamer all around the world and to troll in chats :-P!

Also: I found out where most of the girls and women are, I mean the german ones :-P! AND: if there are gamer girls, then they only play Counter-Strike, nothing more, nothing less (I met one in real life, she was a cheater!!!!)!

[Gez]

Use3D said:

Well what the hell can she do about it? I mean really. Start some kind of crusade against treating people shitty on the internet? People are dicks. Can't change it, can't control it. Crawl under a rock and weep or go on about your business, those are her options.

This doesn't seem like a crusade to me. More like a discussion. And I think the only way you truly can't change it is if you don't try to. Discussion and education is how you can change things, slowly but surely.

In short, I don't see anything wrong with what eargosedown is doing, and I don't get why some people are so defensive about harassers.

Deeforce said:

And why the fuck ain't I a virgin anymore ???? :-()!

Because you had a night of passion with Maes.

[dew]

Deeforce said:

That is not true, because the ones calling themself girls are old men :-()!

begged her for nekkidz and received a wrinkled sausage, eh?

it's also kinda ironic that you managed to find a slideshow from a czech lan. was that intentional? cause 'lot's of Pilsner beer' translates to 'more than you or mr.t could handle'. :)

[Maes]

Gez said:

Because you had a night of passion with Maes.

And one to remember, at that.

[eargosedown]

Joshy said:

Out of curiosity, can I ask you why did you think it was necessary to point that out? There's nothing wrong being a feminist (only the fact that you will be challenged for being different to the mainstream); and being one certainly does not revolve around 'bashing' people and their ideas or whatnot and overtly parading for equal rights (Many people misconceive ideas of feminism), feminists do actually consider how men are oppressed in our systems as well. I guess what I'm saying is you don't need to state if you're a feminist or not.

Perhaps it's personal experience, but the few feminists that I've met have been... well pretty bad. I didn't want the motives of my point to be shaded or pre-concluded as to be as anti-male as most of the feminists I've encountered in my life. I suppose that was an uneducated statement.

Joshy said:

I agree with Technician, it'd be swift if it was all asexual and genderless (not necessarily unsexed), not just the gaming community but all systems as well.

I'm not so sure if genderless is the best way, but more so, gender-careless(?) would be the best. Actually, in all ways. Who really cares what sex, race, religion, height, weight, hair color, lifestyle, orientation, professional career, etc--the person you're playing with or against is?

I think Mr. T was correct in saying a lot of this is from the immature, but at the same time it's kind of saddening how deep the almost casual racism, sexism, and such slurs have sunken into the main stream gaming communities.

kristus said:

Having to hide information about yourself just to be accepted is a form of social fascism.

You got it. That's what I was trying to say in my original post.

[PRIMEVAL]

Deeforce said:

And why the fuck ain't I a virgin anymore ???? :-()!
That is not true, because the ones calling themself girls are old men :-()!

I was gonna make a joke out of this, but I think Gez beat me to it.

[Aliotroph?]

eargosedown said:

Perhaps it's personal experience, but the few feminists that I've met have been... well pretty bad. I didn't want the motives of my point to be shaded or pre-concluded as to be as anti-male as most of the feminists I've encountered in my life. I suppose that was an uneducated statement.

It's in the name. If somebody went around calling themselves a masculist they would get flamed off the face of the Earth. Feminists are generally no better. Their great writers and leaders all came up with positions full of political rhetoric and disconnected from reality (just like 99% of political types).

And as for the oil-change thing, it isn't a manly job (or even a job) unless you do it yourself. :p

[bimlanders]

Watch some of the vent harassment videos on youtube which demonstrate that the attacks are not exclusively for girls. In fact, say anything geeky during a live chat and hope that there isn't someone recording it. Because before you know it, you've become another embarrassing internet meme.

[E.J.]

Guys often act the way the OP describes because we have different social norms to live up to than women. While males, and females, are genetically different (Y Chromosome), I believe that conventions usually end up segregating the social circles of men and women to a certain extent.

The fact is there are just as many women on the internet as guys, but there aren't as many female gamers - let alone those that enjoy violent video games.

[Craigs]

Technician said:

You can always go to UBISOFT's Fem-Nazis Frag Dolls just around the corner.

Assuming she wants some nudes of her leaked out onto the tubes like one of their members.