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Phml

SR50 automation compared to autorun

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Just a random question that popped into my mind. The consensus seems to be that autorun is legit and SR50 automation isn't ; yet aren't both features essentially the same thing, automation of something that wasn't possible in vanilla Doom ?

As far as I understand it, you can enable autorun with a custom CFG in vanilla Doom while the same can't be said for SR50 automation. Is this the important difference ? Is there something else ? I don't know much about either vanilla Doom or SR50, so would like to read more on this.

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For demos sr50 is considered cheating, if set to auto, because it is faster and an unfair advantage. It should always be disclosed.

That does not mean you can't push the right buttons and sr50 in a demo. You just should not set it to auto without disclosure.

It would never be judged side by side (equally) with a simple auto run demo.

That's the way I see it.

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Automated sr50 requires a TSR or hack. Autorun is a game quirk or glitch and is part of the unmodified executable behavior. Autorun is akin to plain sr40 and sr50, not automated sr50.

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Grab a weight from your grandma's old-fashioned balance.

Put it on your keyboard's "run" key. Let it stay there.


Congratulations, you have achieved vanilla autorun with no quirk, glitch, or setup hack.

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Automated sr50 requires a TSR or hack. Autorun is a game quirk or glitch and is part of the unmodified executable behavior. Autorun is akin to plain sr40 and sr50, not automated sr50.


So if I read you right, the line is drawn at modifying the executable. Is that correct ?

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thank carmack for the config hack allowing autorun even in vanilla exe, having to weigh down/press a key constantly as some c-n rules legacy would be laughably dated. in other words, it's very easy to replicate constant running, but it's an annoying burden. now automated sr50 gives you optimal speed during turns and that is NOT okay, because it's not replicable by puny humans and their inferior reflexes. therefore, TAS.

there's the whole other issue of 'one key sr50' in ports enabling binds. you put side strafe, strafe on and side turn to one key and you get a very dumb friendly, efficient sr50ing. this setup is (ab)used by some DM players, especially for easier dodging in ssg dogfights. i neither like nor use it, it's a cheap exploit and has it's own downsides (awkward fine turning).

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I don't use autorun and one of my fingers, my pinkie, isn't doing anything! It's not that I have anything against autorun, though; I just like the possibility of walking slowly during play.

Phml said:
So if I read you right, the line is drawn at modifying the executable. Is that correct ?

Not necessarily, but there's no need to question a function just because it's unintentional. If unexpected engine behavior were a problem, we would start questioning wall-running, sliding through 32-unit openings, arch-vile-powered jumping, the silent BFG trick and other such quirks, and perhaps even mouse sensitivity over 9, as you can set it to 10 or more only by editing the CFG file through a text editing utility.

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I think the line is that it limits competition. Using autorun isn't a base requirement for recording a competitive demo. I think my first few compet-n submissions didn't use it because I was already so used to constantly holding down shift. But if sf50 drivers had taken off then records would have been set that would have been impossible to beat without similar assistance, as though someone had come out with an executable hack that mirrored entryway's always-on strafe50. In other words what dew said.

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I'm not sure I buy that it limits competition or is an unfair advantage, if a player says they used auto sr50 and the hack is available to everyone (since anyone can use the hack themselves). But I'm glad auto-sr50 is in a different category (TAS). I wasn't around back in the day, but I consider sr50 a "skill", and making it automatic removes that "skill" (though perhaps that could also be said about autorun and manual run).

Yeah, binding sr50 to one key in ports like ZDaemon really bugged me, even though I don't play dm or ctf (I kinda suck and get way too angry). Just the idea of only pressing one key instead of pressing 3 keys and dragging the mouse. Though, is it possible to bind a turn key to a mouse button in doom2.exe? If so, you wouldn't even have to drag the mouse.

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Not necessarily, but there's no need to question a function just because it's unintentional.


I didn't mean to question autorun as a legit feature more than to question SR50 being classified as TAS - that is to say, I was just curious about the important difference(s). Lots of good points have been made here, thanks everyone.

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