Rage Gameplay with Willits at E3 '10

[hardcore_gamer]

Youn said:

I'm personally looking forward to this title, and wonder how the PC version differs in quality.

I doubt the PC version will be any different from the console versions, at best the textures will look better and the visuals will be prettier.

The only major difference will probably be the fact that since the editing tools ship with the game we will probably see plenty of user made levels and MODS for the game.

[kristus]

I don't expect to see hardly any maps for Rage considering that they are built in a 3d modeling suite.

[hardcore_gamer]

kristus said:

I don't expect to see hardly any maps for Rage considering that they are built in a 3d modeling suite.

Really?

Look at the video again, the level design in that sewer level looks a lot like something that could have been created with a Doom 3 style/Radiant level editor.

This is a Id tech engine we are seeing there, and I see no reason to assume that the process of level design is now dramatically different then it was in Doom 3 and Quake 1,2 and 3.

[kristus]

Well. It's possible that they will still have the brushes available. But they haven't shown anything that really suggest they still use them.

[Dutch Doomer]

Does Rage run on the same engine as Wolfenstein?

[kristus]

No. Wolfenstein was running on the Doom3 engine (Id Tech 4) Rage is using Id Tech 5.

EDIT: And to Hardcore gamer. Yes, Level designing for Rage is VERY different compared to Quake1-Doom3. You could compare the difference between Doom and Quake.

[Dutch Doomer]

The video felt Wolfenstein-ish for some reason, must be the level design.

[hardcore_gamer]

kristus said:

No. Wolfenstein was running on the Doom3 engine (Id Tech 4) Rage is using Id Tech 5.

EDIT: And to Hardcore gamer. Yes, Level designing for Rage is VERY different compared to Quake1-Doom3. You could compare the difference between Doom and Quake.

I am aware of the fact that the outdoor areas and such mean the level design won't be exactly the same, but I still won't be convinced that it is so different that anyone who is already adapt at using Doom3Edit/Radiant will have a hard time learning how to use the editing tools that ship with Rage until someone shows them to me in action and proves me wrong.

[Enjay]

AlexMax said:

I don't really see where the disappointment is coming from. What exactly are you expecting Rage to be?

Personally, I'm not really expecting much from Rage. I expect it to be a mildly interesting game that might have a strong enough core to outweigh a number of game elements that are probably going to be present, which I'm not particularly interested in and which, for me, will detract from the playing experience. Also, I expect it to be all wrapped up in a "look at our cool technology" engine which may well be cutting edge and excite other game developers but which will not directly make the game more fun.

My disappointment will come when I find out that I am right.


I have to say, that video was a bit of a yawn fest. I see nothing new or particularly interesting there.

"Oh my! I still can't believe what we're looking at".
I wonder if these gushing, sycophantic nippleheads have ever actually played a game. I see nothing unbelievable.

Mind you, the gameplay does look more fast paced and interesting than Doom3 IMO.

Also: "as gamers ourselves, we hate over complex inventory systems". I spotted that quote as an over simplification. I know "gamers" who love certain games because of their complex inventory systems.

[Texas Libra]

My only complaint is...

WHY DID YOU SHAVE YOUR MUSTACHE TIM???????

[Gez]

Enjay said:

Also: "as gamers ourselves, we hate over complex inventory systems". I spotted that quote as an over simplification. I know "gamers" who love certain games because of their complex inventory systems.

Exactly.

[NeoWorm]

Compared to trailers so far the actual gameplay video looks like completely different game. Reminds me Prey, which, for me, was very good FPS. But I was expecting something little better. Some open world like Borderlands or something more adventure/RPG (I hate using that term since most gamers have very twisted ideas about RPG genre, I mean walking, takling, characters, nonlinearity etc. not levels and experience). All trailers and propagation materials (browser game for example) felt like it will be something like this. Instead the thing they played looks just like common 3D shooter. A good one, but nothing exceptional as I hoped.

[kristus]

Enjay said:

all wrapped up in a "look at our cool technology" engine which may well be cutting edge and excite other game developers but which will not directly make the game more fun.

Id doesn't really push to sell their engines anymore.

[kristus]

hardcore_gamer said:

I am aware of the fact that the outdoor areas and such mean the level design won't be exactly the same, but I still won't be convinced that it is so different that anyone who is already adapt at using Doom3Edit/Radiant will have a hard time learning how to use the editing tools that ship with Rage until someone shows them to me in action and proves me wrong.

http://www.luxology.com/community/blog/entry.aspx?id=136

[NeoWorm]

There was a video of making that little piece of map too.

[hardcore_gamer]

kristus said:

http://www.luxology.com/community/blog/entry.aspx?id=136

I stand corrected then, but that still doesn't mean that no brushes are used and that Id tech 5 is modeling itself after the Unreal engine where almost everything is a model.

NeoWorm said:

There was a video of making that little piece of map too.

Where?

[NeoWorm]

It was some IDtech 5 demonstration video. It showed exactly the place from Kristus link.
When I was trying to find it I found only this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbgZJPVbFAg&feature=related

[kristus]

It's a two part video. And it was actually showing the racetrack featured in the first video shown of Rage. I can however no longer find it. But I am pretty sure it was on Gametrailers.

hardcore_gamer said:

I stand corrected then, but that still doesn't mean that no brushes are used and that Id tech 5 is modeling itself after the Unreal engine where almost everything is a model.

That's not really the case with the Unreal 3 engine either. It still have rudimentary building blocks. But it's pretty useless to use them.

[hardcore_gamer]

NeoWorm said:

It was some IDtech 5 demonstration video. It showed exactly the place from Kristus link.
When I was trying to find it I found only this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbgZJPVbFAg&feature=related

Part 2 looked extremely interesting as he showed of how the outdoor areas are created. Watching that has actually made me more exited about creating maps for Rage since the new development tools look awesome.

He also said that indoor areas would have the same level of detail as past games, so that is also good news for modders and level designers alike :)

[Bastet Furry]

hardcore_gamer said:

Not that my words are going to matter to the PC fascists though, as it is only a matter of time before the PC trolls and the elitists on the site will come and spam the thread by yelling at everyone about how the game is obviously going to suck as a result of being "consolized" and that the game would be 9999% better had Id simply chosen to make Rage a PC exclusive and decided to fallow the same design philosophies as the ones the company embraced over a decade and a fucking half ago.

Just two games for you:
Deus Ex 2
Oblivion

Both sucked hard when released on PC because they where made for fucking console. Only Oblivion was fixed by the community, but they can only do so much.

They cant overhaul the fucked inventory, only make it use the whole screen and use a smaller font.

They cant change the shop system that is so wrong on multiply levels. For example, Thoromir can buy for up to 800 Septim. You cant sell him that daedric artefact for 2000 Septim, but you can sell him 100 potions of feather for 120 each netting to 12000 Septim.

They cant add back the skills that got lost from Arena to Daggerfall to Morrowind. A dagger handles differently than a broadsword but in Oblivion it still uses the same skill -> Blade

You cant use an empty magic staff as a blunt weapon... WTF?
You cant shoot horseback... WTF?!? Could do that in Daggerfall.

You know what i call that? Dumbing down.

And then, when i hear Tim Willits talk about a "streamlined inventory system" i want to eat a cow just to vomit it up a second later. On his doorstep! You know what Tim Willits said trough the lines with this single statement? We gamers are dumb as dog-shit!

I go now and play Dungeon Master, THAT game rocks. (Who still knows the runes to conjure a fireball without looking it up? ;) )

[Dutch Doomer]

Oblivion failed on so many points, I wish it was more like Morrowind. The stupid leveling system ruined the game completely.

[hardcore_gamer]

Bastet Furry said:

Just two games for you:
Deus Ex 2
Oblivion

Both sucked hard when released on PC because they where made for fucking console. Only Oblivion was fixed by the community, but they can only do so much.

They cant overhaul the fucked inventory, only make it use the whole screen and use a smaller font.

They cant change the shop system that is so wrong on multiply levels. For example, Thoromir can buy for up to 800 Septim. You cant sell him that daedric artefact for 2000 Septim, but you can sell him 100 potions of feather for 120 each netting to 12000 Septim.

They cant add back the skills that got lost from Arena to Daggerfall to Morrowind. A dagger handles differently than a broadsword but in Oblivion it still uses the same skill -> Blade

You cant use an empty magic staff as a blunt weapon... WTF?
You cant shoot horseback... WTF?!? Could do that in Daggerfall.

You know what i call that? Dumbing down.

And then, when i hear Tim Willits talk about a "streamlined inventory system" i want to eat a cow just to vomit it up a second later. On his doorstep! You know what Tim Willits said trough the lines with this single statement? We gamers are dumb as dog-shit!

I go now and play Dungeon Master, THAT game rocks. (Who still knows the runes to conjure a fireball without looking it up? ;) )

Almost everything you described sounds like a collection of bad design decisions that they could have made regardless of how they intended to release the game. You talk about how they dumbed the game down for the consoles, and yet I can't think of any reason for why most of the things you said you wanted into the game like shooting from a horse back can't be implemented on a console controller, its sounds like the developers just got lazy.

Blaming the consoles for everything that is wrong with gaming will only make the ugly PC elitist stereotype grow stronger.

Some people appear to believe that gaming is basically like this:

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6025/7pllylb8r.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

And most people call them trolls.

[kristus]

Only people who doesn't know what "troll" means.

[NeoWorm]

hardcore_gamer said:

...stuff...

Problem is not that it CANT be done right, problem is that its not done right because it wont be interesting for masses of button mashers who usually play games on consoles. When you exchange posibilities for slow motion animations of heads blowing up into a bloody mess, something is wrong.

Gaming is really like this. Master race rules.
Seriously do you know some really complex game for console? All the complexity ends with combo systems in hack&slash games. Anything that actually involves planning, strategy or knowledge is usually released exclusively on PC, because only at PC it will get his fans.

And yes, I am ugly stereotypical PC elitist and I am proud of it.

[hardcore_gamer]

kristus said:

Only people who doesn't know what "troll" means.

When someone starts to blindly bash a game or a company with largely baseless accusations or stupid paragraphs like "OMGWTF WHY AR ZEE TARDS SELLING THEIRE SOULS TO ZE CONSOLE WHORESHIPPERS I WANT A GoOd PC GAME DAMNIT!!!" then that counts as trolling the way I see it, these people are snobs and need to get their shit together.

Don't get me wrong, there ARE developers who actually do take old PC franchises and damage them by dumbing them down for the consoles. But last time I checked Rage was a brand new franchise with no PC past whatsoever thus leaving Id Software with absolutely obligation to favor the PC buyers of the game over the console gamers.

If someone takes your fav PC franchise and cuts it down into ribbons in order to appease the console market, then yes. People have a right to complain.

But if the franchise is brand new with no PC fast at all just like Rage and people still accuse the developers of "dumbing down the game" even though the gameplay never had to meet any certain minimal level of complexity in the first place with this being a new franchise is just elitism and hypocrisy at its worst.

PC gamers don't own this franchise any more then the consoles players do, and people should stop acting like they do.

NeoWorm said:

Seriously do you know some really complex game for console? All the complexity ends with combo systems in hack&slash games. Anything that actually involves planning, strategy or knowledge is usually released exclusively on PC

That is because consoles don't focus on those kind of games, but I fail to see how this is relevant with Rage anyways. Has Id actually made any of those games you describe? Last time I checked almost all of Id Software's games have been straight forward shooters all of whom have been ported over to the consoles successfully with either no or minimal changes to the gameplay.

The whole "but PC games can be more complex!" argument doesn't work here, because Id Software's shooters have never been complex or required a lot of thought.

EDIT: Also, there are plenty of tactical shooters on the consoles that require a lot of thought. So your claims are fairly baseless anyways.

[Enjay]

Bastet Furry said:

(Who still knows the runes to conjure a fireball without looking it up? ;) )

Me! Me! :D

[NeoWorm]

hardcore_gamer said:

...stuff...

First you were replying to comment about DeusEX and Oblivion but you were actually speaking about 3D shooters? Weird.

Making game dumb CANT be justified by ANYTHING, not even by bringing completely new franchise. There is no reason why I cant complain about console (and multiplatform) games being dumb even if they are console only (or primary).

"but PC games can be more complex!" maybe wont work when talking about new ID furious FPS, but it works well in many other cases. For example compare MW that claims to be realistic depiction of modern war with old Operation:Flashpoint or newer ARMA2 which actually ARE realistic depictions of modern war.

BTW being troll means that I am making fool of you by saying something that I myself know is not true, which clearly is not this case.

That being said, I wont continue with this flame. I am not in the "4chan" mood...

[Craigs]

Bastet Furry said:

Oblivion

what.

I own both the console and the PC version of Oblivion and I actually got the impression that it was made with the PC in mind. For one thing there was the inventory, which was a lot easier to navigate, since I didn't have to hold down the analogue stick to scroll past dozens of item. There was also the developer's console to take into consideration too, which made it a bit more entertaining at times. Oh and I didn't have to restart the game every now and then on the PC version and hold down a button to prevent it from crashing a lot.

You cant shoot horseback... WTF?!? Could do that in Daggerfall.

You know what i call that? Dumbing down.

Yes and God forbid all they remove some of the other awesome features in Daggerfall, such as an extremely unbalanced tutorial dungeon full of monsters that will kill you in a single hit if you don't make your character just right, massive dungeons with unintuitive designs that are far too easy to get lost in, tedious quests that require you to search every square inch of one of said massive dungeons for a single enemy that you have to kill, and let's not forget the best feature of all... falling through the floor to your death every 5 minutes.

In my opinion, most of the stuff they removed seemed somewhat pointless, and in a few cases actually hurt the gameplay, a good example of which would be some of the skills they removed, such as the monster speech skills. I honestly don't see the fun in asking a monster not to kill you nicely when it's more fun to just kill them. The banks were another thing I was happy to see go, as they made it even easier to make money than Oblivion. Just go to some region you'll never go to again, take out a massive loan, and never visit the region again.

[Captain Toenail]

This game looks alright, to me it looks like a fun Fallout 3.

[Gez]

Craigs said:

what.

I own both the console and the PC version of Oblivion and I actually got the impression that it was made with the PC in mind.

Yeah; I mean, a size 72 font and a maximum of four items displayed at a time just screams "people with their eyes about one meter away from the screen" rather than "people playing on their TV and sitting on their sofa".

Anybody who remembers the dev comments about the elderly and respectable BTmod knows that the consoleness of Oblivion's interface is a fact.