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hardcore_gamer

US federal authorities shut down 9 pirate sites

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Scet said:

No one is arguing that piracy is a 100% alright, rather that the punishment for users violating copyright is getting ridiculous. It shouldn't be possible for police to arrest someone for posting copyrighted images on a forum or sharing an MP3 with a friend. Sure those cases are rather extreme, but something like that should never become a possibility.

Or outlaw entire classes of technology, or deny persons the fundamental right of free speech, or stifle scientific and educational research projects, or destroy what little privacy we have left. Yet all these things have been done and will be done with increasing frequency and severity, because they serve certain powerful interests.

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Quasar said:

One of the first critical steps toward any totalitarian regime is installation of the ability to easily criminalize any member of the population. Look at any of them through history and you will see they have all done it.

YES! Don't forget to take away their right to defend themselves first! Then give your poor, scared masses something to direct their anger and fears at. Make them feel safer while you take all their rights and money away. Smoke-n-Mirrors.

The difference here is that it's not to serve the interests of some particular mad despot or the power ambitions of a senseless junta, but to put more money into the hands of a corrupt, wealthy industry that has taken control of our culture.

Then BEHOLD! That "corrupt, wealthy industry" has helped to create a monster that you better cooperate with or it will turn around and bite your head off! That "totalitarian regime" needs to USE the media for this Smoke-n-Mirrors to work.

Know what's being passed in the House? Don't worry about it 'cause you've got this kewl show to watch on TV about romantic vampires!

See these kids in another country with dirty clothes because they've been playing in a trash heap? They're starving and you should feel guilty about it! Send money!

See these abused animals that we've kept alive for a photo-op? Send money! Joe kicked his dog! OMG! HE MUST BE FINED AND SENT TO PRISON!

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Heh. Doomworld is the new Indymedia?

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I had no idea what "Indymedia" meant so I searched it.

All the links that came up say: "Warning: Dangerous Downloads"!

Scare John Q. Public away from reading "independant, non-corporate" material.

:::drops another piece of the puzzle into place:::

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I am really hoping that there are enough people in the government to stop these things from going through, but honestly I completely doubt that. This is going to be a long 4 years from what I can tell.

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Basically, as long as some company out there and not myself is paying millions of dollars to recreate an adequately realistic airport that I can walk around and shoot people in, then they are within their rights to be able to tell what you can do with their software.

False sense of entitlement aside, what have YOU done for them? They are the ones putting their resources, hiring employees etc... even though I'm not against piracy (it's on the internet, it's free), I do spend my extra money, even if I don't have a whole lot, going to see movies and the like as a treat to myself, and to put some revenue back into The Man's coffers.

There's nothing worse than people whining about someone trying to stop them from making FREE use of THEIR property.

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Mr. T said:

There's nothing worse than people whining about someone trying to stop them from making FREE use of THEIR property.

I agreed with a lot of you said until this, people are not complaining because they can't get software or music for free, its because of the invasion of privacy, censorship and the overall issue of the sickening amounts of money these people make while still charging other up the ass for their works, the money doesn't "trickle down" as they try to tell you it does. Teams of 3 - 6 people can make free content such as Nexuiz, Alien Arena or other games and give them away for free, while they still make an above average income off of things like donations and extras alone. With music, concert tickets make a large amount of revenue.

Say you made a game, gave it away for free, and added extras you could buy then that would mean you are STILL making a high amount of of income. A game that I will only play for 7 or 8 days isn't worth 70$ that I earned at work, and most people need all the money they can get for education, food, etc.

Mr. T said:

False sense of entitlement aside, what have YOU done for them?

Shown an interest in their game or product and encourage others to do the same? Maybe even buy the title if its one I would enjoy for long periods of time? A lot of the games I have pirated I now own and have shown interest in the product, if it had cost large amounts of money and I had no other way of obtaining it then I wouldn't even have acknowledged its existance.

A student like me doesn't have that much money to throw around, most of my entertainment cash will eventually find its way to the movie theater.

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Maes said:

Or more realistically, if a country decided to modify its laws to turn itself into a "piracy heaven" granting total freedom and even legal protection to warez hosters. Probably the RIAA would cause a military invasion/precision bombardment of server farms :-p

A cheaper and more elegant solution would be to make that country disappear from the Web by telling the master DNS servers to ignore it.

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AveryMaurice said:

Shown an interest in their game or product and encourage others to do the same? Maybe even buy the title if its one I would enjoy for long periods of time? A lot of the games I have pirated I now own and have shown interest in the product, if it had cost large amounts of money and I had no other way of obtaining it then I wouldn't even have acknowledged its existance.

A student like me doesn't have that much money to throw around, most of my entertainment cash will eventually find its way to the movie theater.


Yep, and that's a good part of piracy, the "try before you buy" thing. It's like renting a game before you buy it... companies against this can suck my balls cuz it's fair.

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GreyGhost said:

A cheaper and more elegant solution would be to make that country disappear from the Web by telling the master DNS servers to ignore it.


They would have to convince ALL of them to do that, and then again there would be several ways to piggyback on others or otherwise conceal themselves.

But that would only combat web-based "piracy". There's also a large market for physically copied games/movies/DVDrips/screeners etc. for which there are no other means to combat them than those used for centuries vs traditional counterfeiters/smugglers.

Major cracker groups still use physical swapping of archived data (hard disks, CDs, DVDs, even tapes) to transfer large amounts of warez to their "agents" around the world which then proceed to copy and distribute on physical media locally.

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Gamers are strange to think they deserve games on the cheap. Go play paintball for four hours at a good place, take the family to a 3D movie, eat at a decent restaurant or go skiing for a day and see if you don't spend at an absolute minimum the price of a game you'd be playing for longer. In many cases like that you might pay two or three times the price of a game.

Free games never get much past being shinier versions of Quake. Those are cool, but games like Oblivion take a million man hours to make. I don't mind paying for those because I like them. If they can't get their expensive game to sell then so be it.

No, what bothers me is they use piracy as an excuse to make life nasty for me if I do buy the game. EA screwed my best friend around so much with DRM on C&C3 that it was easier for him to pirate the game than try and install the copies be bought. They're supposed to make me want to pay for the game; they're not supposed to make me want to torrent it because I don't know if the paid one is gonna screw me and possibly my computer.

And no, they have no right to tell me how I can use the software once I do pay. Licenses that control anything besides distribution are just wrong. It's my copy and if I want to take it apart I will.

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Maes said:

They would have to convince ALL of them to do that, and then again there would be several ways to piggyback on others or otherwise conceal themselves.

That shouldn't be difficult.

  • The 13 root servers are maintained by ICANN and it's delegates
  • ICANN is answerable to the US Department of Commerce
  • When the White House says "jump" the correct response is "how high?"
While there are ways around the servers, people exploiting them would have difficulty convincing the authorities that it was "accidental" - which brings us back to this thread.

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GreyGhost said:

  • The 13 root servers are maintained by ICANN and it's delegates
  • ICANN is answerable to the US Department of Commerce[/B]


... and that's that's why, Gentlemen, the Eastern Bloc should never have fallen, or at least it should have its own "Internet". A global information network totally controlled by the "Enemy of the People" or any single entity ? It's a pretty bad scenario to think about, and yet it's materializing day by day. National censorship of Internet access e.g. in China and Turkey pales in comparison.

Jokes apart, a corporation with such an importance SHOULDN'T be in the hands of a single entity or practically answerable to a single country. Even entities like NATO and UN are pretty much USA's bitch...but nothing prevents building a parallel network of DNS servers elsewhere. It would take a world-wide conspiracy, going down to the last crappy local ISP in the shittiest world's shithole to prevent any and all access to an "alternative" Internet.

And again, jokes apart...."alternative internets" may very well develop in places where there's censorship towards mainstream internet. The RIAA and ICANN can do jack vs such large scale "outsider" networks.

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I'm in the middle of piracy,I believe downloading music is a shame,for the artist put alot of effort into(Unless it's th trash they play on the radio).But if I want a PC version of,Lets say oblivion,And I already have a version for the xbox 360 or PS3.I'm not gonna go give the company more money for buying another copy just so I can play it on the PC.The way I look at it is,I gave your company 60 dollors for the game of the year edition when it came out,I'm not gonna pay 30 dollors just to get it on the pc,So I'll go pirate it.HOWEVER,If I never owned the game,I'll buy it on whatever console I see fit and play it on it.So im not trying to say "Pirate games" I'm trying to say "Don't feel like you have to pay the company more money just to get different versions that run on different consoles".

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It really comes down to people that can't afford, or don't want to spend money on shit VS "Every other feelgood bullshit argument for rationalizing Piracy".

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POTGIESSER said:

It really comes down to people that can't afford, or don't want to spend money on shit VS "Every other feelgood bullshit argument for rationalizing Piracy".


Im not trying to rationalize doing it,im saying im not gonna put up with buying different versions of the game just to get it to play on a certian console

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But...Didn't Johnny Depp look so adorable in his pirate outfit? C'mon. X(

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Porsche Monty said:

It was about time. Pirates are complete and utter scum.

hi, WOG.
also stop dissing guybrush threepwood, you're just afraid of letting your closet ass pirate yourself out.

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And Jesus said, "Self loathing ass pirates which have been excommunicated, shall reappear under new aliases. Complete with Aspie ramblings of intolerance and insolence."

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dew said:

hi, WOG.
also stop dissing guybrush threepwood, you're just afraid of letting your closet ass pirate yourself out.


guybrush threepwood? the hell was that? anyways, thumbs up for pretending that everyone else is criminal just to feel better about your own criminal behavior. Way to go boy.

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Porsche Monty said:

thumbs up for pretending that everyone else is criminal just to feel better about your own criminal behavior. Way to go boy.

Isn't that exactly what you were doing?

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AveryMaurice said:

Isn't that exactly what you were doing?


Nope. Piracy is a crime thus pirates are criminals, period. Nobody has to pretend anything for any reason, people seem to have lost every vestige of shame already.

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Porsche Monty said:

Nope. Piracy is a crime thus pirates are criminals, period. Nobody has to pretend anything for any reason, people seem to have lost every vestige of shame already.


Last spring, I was fined $75 for trespassing... I was on my school's roof. Yes, trespassing is a crime. Am I a criminal? According to the dictionary, yes. But if the lawyers of the RIAA (for example) were somehow in charge of my fee, I would have been forced to pay $70,000 dollars or something equally obnoxious.

As I've stated before, I know piracy is a crime. But I also know that my download of MW 7 (for example) will certainly not cost Activision tens of thousands of dollars. But, if caught, I will be persecuted as if I had. One man would bear the collective sins of pirates everywhere.

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Those fines are ridiculous, I think people should be charged retail for whatever they have downloaded (eg iTunes store price for songs, bla bla).

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Aliotroph? said:
Gamers are strange to think they deserve games on the cheap. Go play paintball for four hours at a good place, take the family to a 3D movie, eat at a decent restaurant or go skiing for a day and see if you don't spend at an absolute minimum the price of a game you'd be playing for longer. In many cases like that you might pay two or three times the price of a game.

The examples you gave pretty much demand, physically, that you pay, if you want such a service. You "pay for your seat". Digital "content" is not like that, regardless of how much it takes to produce. Its reproducibility is not limited by resources. It's like money that can be issued in unlimited amounts by almost anybody. It has to more or less be forced to work commercially as a product. Digital work is a service, not a product. That is what "copyright infringement is not theft" implies, and "proprietary" contradicts this. Where's the property? If it's not countable, how can it be compared to that sense of entitlement users may develop?

Compare it with the counterfeiting of money, too. To create fake money you need special technology which authorities guard and keep zealously for a very specific use, and any results will be materially limited by paper, ink and such, and might be traced to your shop. Digital information, on the other hand, is reproduced in a nearly unlimited manner with multipurpose technology nearly anyone can use.

People who have more time than money and enough money will be easy to convince to pay for digital information, which comes in a nice package with (hopefully) clear instructions and a seal of authenticity, but as the amount of money available diminishes, or given enough time, taking copies of that information will be more beneficial than buying it.

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But they're measuring the worth of things in hours of entertainment. Even expensive games are very often a good deal by that kind of metric. For gamers to act like they're entitled to a certain price range because duplicating the data costs next to nothing is still stupid.

Software is not cheaper to make cost-wise than other things in a lot of cases. When it finally works it's easier to distribute, but software is bloody hard to get right if it's complex. Most of the work shifts from manufacturing and distribution to R&D, design, testing maintenance. To pay devs decent wages to work on something that took a million man hours to make therefore takes a ton of cash and hopefully they had something they could sell during that time so they didn't go broke. If they want to sell it for $70 then fine.

The crappy side comes with all the sales types, publishers, resellers, etc. that take a cut in the middle. Best to buy $70 games from the developer directly if at all possible and lobby for short copyright terms. It doesn't take Carmack's life plus 70 years to make a handy profit on DOOM. :) (Actually, how would that work when there are multiple authors? Does the last one have to die?)

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Porsche Monty said:

Nope. Piracy is a crime thus pirates are criminals, period. Nobody has to pretend anything for any reason, people seem to have lost every vestige of shame already.


Ban-Evading is a "crime" here, too.

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