For those who use WadAuthor

[loser]

I created a modified the version latest WadAuthor executable. The lists in the editing dialogs are now much wider, they are easier to use. If anyone is interested, I could upload it.

[Tobester]

Is that the only change you made?

[deep]

You aren't clear, but it sounds like you hacked the exe resource.

I don't know if you got permission to do this from John Williston, but if you didn't, you can't distribute it.

How would you like it if someone hacked something of yours without your consent? That goes for ANY original work that anyone has made.

It's not ethical, it's not legal. Get his permission first.

OTOH, it you did get his permission, then everything is cool:) Be sure to include the permissions statement.

[læmænt]

But then, almost everyone can hack the exe.

[deep]

Sure, do what you want in your home.

It's just that you can't distribute it without permission.

[loser]

It is a hacked EXE. Since WadAuthor was written in Visual C++, you can change the dialog box layouts. You can't change anything else without the source (okay, you could, but it would be extremely difficult).

I don't think John would mind, if anything, this version would encourage more people to buy it. I'll email him, but I doubt I'll get a reply.

[boris]

Why not simply releas a patch with your modifications, that WA users can apply to their WA copy?

[deep]

ALL windows RC files can be hacked - it's not just a VC thing.

So you don't mind that XWE is hacked - for better or for worse? Nor that someone uploads that version somewhere?

Let's see what John says.

[loser]

You didn't read what I wrote carefully, Jack. I am aware that all windows RC files can be modified, not only VC++ ones. What I stated was "Since WadAuthor was written in Visual C++, you can change the dialog box layouts." Visual Basic for example does not store it's forms (dialog boxes) in resource files. Delphi does, but it's not as simple as VC++.

I don't mind if anyone does anything to XWE. It's a free software in all senses. At least they are using my work, so I didn't waste my time developing it. Realistically, why would anyone put the effort into it, if they can just ask me? :-) However, WA hasn't been updated for a long time.

To me the Doom community is a hobby, I do it to have fun. I enjoy downloading other peoples maps, and playing with them occasionally. They invested their time to make them and it's free. Well, I'm not good at making maps (I'm not really interested), but I enjoy developing software. So I wrote XWE and gave it to the community: here you go everyone, this is my contribution. Quite a few people even asked for specific things, implementing those things was a challenge, so I enjoyed doing it.

I'm only telling you this to see where I'm coming from: I thought releasing a better (or at least alternative) version of WadAuthor would be a "nice thing" I could do for the community. It's a small but useful change. I don't think anyone would mind, I wouldn't call this unethical.

Still, you are right about the legal aspect of it. Thanks for letting me know. I will wait until I hear from John.

[999cop]

if you would ask for a wish list, i'd ask if you could add a feature that has an easier way to select the properies option for picking on tiny sectors. That'd be one great change

[deep]

I read it quite carefully - no need to get snippy. The implication was VC++ specific - as you just repeated. As a programmer you should be quite aware of the literal nature of statements.

If you don't say otherwise, the rest is NOT there by default. The question wasn't whether you knew or not. My remark was only about your explicit comment, not what was in your mind. I'm not a mind reader yet:)

That you thought you could do that without permission is just a bit appalling, no matter what the rationalization is. There are basic Western world ethical guidelines governing these things. You don't tinker with someone elses code or level without permission and then distribute it. Most people learn this quickly in just the level editing world, but it's even more so in the coding world (alas some never do).

You missed my point about hacking XWE along exactly those same lines. What if I changed it in a way that crashed it? Or made it look displeasing to YOUR idea of how it should look? And so forth. You don't care eh? Of course you would. It all about your rights in the program's look, feel and operation.

You have to give and get explicit permission to do so, just like one does with physical property. For example, would you consider painting the door on a car that wasn't yours without asking?

[Fredrik]

For example, would you consider painting the door on a car that wasn't yours without asking?

After all, I think there's a difference between unique physical things and duplicated software... his hack doesn't affect the author's version.

[Lobo]

Realistically, why would anyone put the effort into it, if they can just ask me? However, WA hasn't been updated for a long time.

Actually, Wad author is being updated at the moment (just not very quickly :-) ), and the author is open to suggestions to improve the program.


For more info check this outhttp://www.teamdeim.com/wadauth/

[deep]

I think there's a difference between unique physical things and duplicated software... his hack doesn't affect the author's version.

Nope, you state a common mistaken belief that somehow the "soft" world has different rights than the "hard" world. The rights are IDENTICAL regard copyrights. Think physical painting vs electronic painting. Are there different rights for one vs the other? Can you alter one and not the other?

It does affect the "author's version". The look was changed without permission and without knowing any possible consequences of the changes. Even if it didn't cause adverse reactions, the decision is not his or yours to make, it belongs to the author.

If you agree you can't change the "hard" world of objects without permission, then you implicitly agree that one can't change the "soft" world. A copyright is a copyright is a copyright.

Let's make it relevant to you in particular. Would you be upset if your level had the textures changed or the dimensions changed without your permission? Hey, it still plays.

Here's a snip from VRACK2.TXT

Authors may NOT use this level as a base to build additional levels.

Why did you write that? The simple fact is that the level is de facto copyrighted and no one could make a change to it even without that statement. Simple copyright law takes care of that and all electronic media. People put that in to make sure they get the message.

[loser]

I appreciate your comments on this issue Jack. To answer your question, I have to re-iterate myself: "I don't mind if anyone does anything to XWE."

John contacted me by email today. He asked me to send him my version of the file, if he likes my changes, he will consider incorporating them into the new version of WadAuthor. I guess this is a bit of good new for anyone waiting for an update of WA.

[bragg]

"John contacted me by email today ....if he likes my changes, he will consider incorporating them into the new version of WadAuthor"

I wonder if we'll ever see the new WA. It's been nearly a year now since John began working on it.

[Phileosophos]

I wonder if we'll ever see the new WA. It's been nearly a year now since John began working on it.

You know what? I wonder that too. I've been so ridiculously busy with... well... everything else that my work on WadAuthor remains stalled almost precisely where it was before. My intentions remain the same, however: finish the lump management stuff and ship it. I guess I have to stick with the Id Software timetable (i.e., when it's done), though, since my credibility for anything else is shot (grin).

Anyway, getting back to the whole mods thing, first let me thank Jack for bringing this to my attention. WadAuthor is my intellectual property. As such nobody else has a right to release modifications without my consent. The modifications provided in this particular case are limited to resizing dialog box resources, and I'm not opposed to it being released. Thus, let me state publicly that loser, Csabo or whatever his name is can pass this executable along to his friends, etc. on the condition that it be made clear that it's his own modification to WadAuthor and not an official release on my part.

Sorry for the delay in getting to this. The same garbage that keeps me from writing code these days keeps me from being timely in addressing such matters, I'm afraid.

[ReX]

Hello John, it's good of you to stop by, even if it's only for a tempest in a teacup. Hope all is well with you.