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StoneFrog

How the hell do you make maps less cramped?

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I hate to sound whiny, but this has pretty much eluded me for the past few years. How exactly do you guys go about making your maps feel big and arena-like? Whereas I understand maps should have contrasts in space, I'd have to say that the most enjoyable ones are the wide open slaughterfests, like in Plutonia 2 and Kama Sutra.

For whatever reason, whenever I make a map, it more or less gives off the "Evilution" vibe - cramped and straightforward. Non-linearity is more easily achieved with open spaces and greater height variance, but for some reason I find it hard to pull that off.

One major flaw with my mapping style is that I tend to detail as I go along, infact rather excessively sometimes. For engines such as Source, detail primarily consists of props, lighting, and decal spam overlaid on top of the core geometry - so it's easy to work in phases. However, since virtually all detailing in Doom engine games is part of the map layout, I often don't feel right working with larger spaces as it is.

Currently, this is the case with my Heretic map (32 unit grid):


I just feel like rebooting the entire thing, but obviously you never get anything done like that. Any suggestions? :\

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StoneFrog said:

How exactly do you guys go about making your maps feel big and arena-like?

The obvious answer is to create a large, open area. I assume you already knew that, and were asking about how to make large, open areas look attractive. Here are some ideas:

    1. Assuming you are creating a map for a limit-removing source port, make sure that there are plenty of "planes" - visible surfaces - both vertical and horizontal. Pillars are not only good visual constructs, they also serve to provide cover from enemy fire.
    2. Perimeter walls should be punctuated with "supports", angled or curved, and/or turreted.
    3. For outdoor areas use a mix of brick/cut stone and natural rock to provide both a texture contrast and a natural look. Natural rock can be made to look jagged and uneven for more realism.
    4. If you're working with natural terrain, use water (or lava, as the map demands) pools, islands in water/lava, rock formations (stalagtites).
    5. To create a feeling of an even vaster space, surround a part of your arena with an open, outdoor terrain that seems to extend to the horizon.

Currently, this is the case with my Heretic map ...I just feel like rebooting the entire thing, but obviously you never get anything done like that. Any suggestions? :\

The layout looks reasonable to me. Aside from the fact that you don't have the arena-like areas, I don't know why you feel the need to ditch this map.

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Do you draw your maps before hand? Not that it is the most important, but it could help you to avoid what you call an "Evilution vibe".

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What works for me is getting rid of useless detail, keeping only useful detail - stuff for visual contrast, showing secrets or environmental changes (height variation, stairs, crushers, lava, etc.). Fluff can be added once the map is playtested completely and won't need anymore layout tweaks for playability.

Also, constantly going in 3D mode. Somehow, everything I make is too small before I can look at it in 3D and make it 50%, 100%, sometimes even 200% bigger.

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Plan a little bit forward. For example, don't even begin on a map until you have a basic idea for at least one significant area AND its gameplay of the map. Once you do begin, forget everything about detailing or even texturing, just lay down sectors and settle with imagining how it should look until you've got the basic layout down (including all the areas immediatly connecting to this area, etc). Once you begin detailing, stick to simple detailing at first since you're likely to come up with more ideas for the whole area while you keep working it, and doing edits when it's full of 1x1 detail is near impossible (as you know already). Also try to make your maps good looking with architecture, texture choices and large-scale-detail rather than minute detail, since it also leaves more choices for opening up new routes, monster closets and such.

Also, don't be afraid to edit your already done parts later on.

Other than that...when you've got a basic layout done, take a good look at it and see if some new areas could be added to connect to walls that are still bare. Note that not all areas you could add are good (since sometimes less is more), but some are, so give it some thought.



Once you get things started and get more used to mapping bigger areas, it'll become more natural and you don't need to worry about it as much anymore.

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Avoid linking big rooms with small corridors. Sometimes you can clear a whole room by holding down the fire button on the choke point, Diablo1-style. Personally I don't think it's engaging gameplay, so you might want to make the player enter the big room via lures, for example health, ammo, superior cover etc. But don't make a huge arena with hitscanners and no cover.

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If you really want to try to make a large interconnected area in that map, this wall looks best to take down.


However, it looks fine how it is now. Like others have said, it takes planning to create a large arena-like area with many exits that has good gameplay. I rarely map without sketching something out on paper anymore just because I won't have a focus and can spend half an hour going "hmm, maybe this, nooo, maybe that" and not get anything done. Speedmapping can help you get away from detailing all at once but just not doing much detail at all and work on a map. I'd start up another speedmapping thread but I've got an event with friends this weekend and packing for a trip in the first 2 weeks or so of August.

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Well, thanks for the advice - I'm keeping the original layout but am going to try and add an outer "region" linking the starting area to the other rooms. I figure if Raven's maps had their cramped moments then it shouldn't be a problem to do it from time to time.

K!r4 said:

Do you draw your maps before hand? Not that it is the most important, but it could help you to avoid what you call an "Evilution vibe".

I don't really enjoy drawing out my maps - if I use grid paper, I seldom stick to the scale anyway. I feel as if my maps have a completely different feel depending on if they originated in Doom Builder or on paper.

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StoneFrog said:

Well, ... I figure if Raven's maps had their cramped moments then it shouldn't be a problem to do it from time to time ...

Some people don't mind cramped areas, most, I imagine, do.

If an area feels cramped to you, but is okay as far as architecture is concerned, select that area, press E in DB2 and drag it to an approriate size. Of course, you will have to make room first to accommodate the larger size.

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Your grid size usually helps a lot. If you start with a 32 width grid to make your layouts in and it still feels cramped, try restricting yourself to a 64 width grid. Your map so far looks fine but if you're not into it, it looks as though you put too much work into it already to save it. By that I mean it would be much more difficult to stretch out your hallways and resize your rooms and make the map still look good than to start over from scratch. However, you could cut the map up into pieces and use each room as scraps to fit in between the new rooms you make so that it doesn't go entirely to waste.

I keep a folder full of unfinished maps that I like to steal rooms from every now and again while I'm mapping to fill in spaces when I get mapper's block.

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Yeah, I think I'll keep the grid size tip in mind - whenever I've mapped for TF2 I've tried to restrain the general dimensions of buildings and hallways to the 128 unit grid so that there's both a nice buffer zone for wall clutter and enough free room for player movement. Thanks.

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Well, frankly, I had read this guide, which inspired me to avoid mapping anything cramped any more. The criterion was: leave enough room for four cooping players.

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Meh all you will, but I was completely honest.

It's the detail guide that deserves criticism, not this one anyway.

If the link is misleading, do mind I was attempting to link to the fourth part, that about "Size and Scale". Specifically that.

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The co-op rule is a good reference point. I certainly don't agree with any of the other pages of the detailing guide though. Never liked that emphasis on clutter and "small" details - makes it feel like I'm mapping for Doom 3, not Doom.

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printz said:

Meh all you will, but I was completely honest.

It's the detail guide that deserves criticism, not this one anyway.

If the link is misleading, do mind I was attempting to link to the fourth part, that about "Size and Scale". Specifically that.

Regardless of what it's called, most of it is basically Detail Guide Redux.

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