How Important are Secrets?

[Foodles]

When mapping, secret areas are usually the bottom of my list of priorities and so I end up just throwing some in after I have mapped the level.
How important to your gaming experience are secret areas and should secrets be really hard to find? Also how many secret areas should be included in a map and how large should these areas be, should they just be a single room with and invisibility sphere in or (like in the original Doom) should there be large sections of a map that are secret?

[printz]

I think secret areas should be moderate.

[Phml]

There should be 8 secrets in a map, most of them hard to find, one of them an invisibility sphere on a lowering floor that also includes a large portion of the map.

Much like most things, I don't think there's clear and cut rules, only guidelines. In my opinion, secrets should either be included in the map design or left out completely, adding secrets just for the sake of it might unbalance your map and not fit in the big picture.

I'm not big on "hard" secrets ; it's easy to make hard to find secrets through cryptic switches/walkover lines without the slightest indication that it might reveal a secret, much like it's easy to make a hard map by pitting the doomguy against 1000 cyberdemons with no weapon except the pistol, but none of these scenarios make for a very compelling experience.

A good secret is a secret that feels rewarding to find, like ones you can see by paying attention to environment (i.e., misaligned texture, or specific texture near a switch opening the secret corresponding to specific texture in another place near the secret), and rewarding to get, stuff useful for the current map without being too overpowering (secrets with one invisibility sphere and nothing else are disappointing most of the time).

[Grazza]

Sure, secrets are completely at your discretion. But maybe a few guidelines can be suggested.

Have at least one secret. This makes sure the secrets tally on the exit screen is consistent between different exes.

It should generally be possible to exit the map without finding any hard-to-find secret areas. The secrets should make it easier to exit the map though (power-ups weapons). Never put keys (i.e. ones that you need in order to exit the map) in secret areas.

It shouldn't be too easy to kill everything in the map without finding at least some of the secrets (e.g. weapons, ammo, berserk).

There probably shouldn't be a huge number of secrets. Even in a very large map, more than 10 is probably excessive.

There should be some sort of visual indication, however subtle, of a secret area. Or give the player an automap at some point (possibly in an easier-to-find secret).

A secret should always contain something of value - on all skill levels. If it contains ammo, then this should be more ammo than the player is likely to need to use killing things to reach the secret.

[Jodwin]

Good secrets are inventive in the way they operate, and don't imbalance the gameplay. For example, a megasphere secret or a BFG with a lot of ammo in an easy map are definitely over the top. I'm not a big fan of secret areas so big that missing them feels like you're missing a part of the whole map, but if your secret feels secret-y enough, that's okay.

[_bruce_]

Essential. Though sometimes a map without any secrets is also a nice touch.

[Enjay]

Some good points have been made already, most of which I broadly agree with.

IMO, secrets should never be essential for the completion of a map (eg keys being in them or a well hidden area being the only way to get to the exit). Keys in secrets are acceptable to me if finding the secret (and thereby the key) allows access to a non-essential bonus area elsewhere in the map (eg via a key-coded door that the player may already have seen).

I like secrets where you can get a glimpse of the thing that you get inside the secret, but perhaps cannot immediately see how to get to the item in question (eg the soul sphere that you can see in E1M3).

Types of secrets and ease of finding them should be varied. There is nothing wrong with a simple mis-coloured wall indicating a secret that is little more than a cupboard but larger, more complex or more interesting secrets are also welcome. A variety of activation types helps to spice things up too - gun activated, timed runs to a door, having to activate more than one line - whatever.

It makes sense that the harder to find secrets should have more rewarding prizes in them.

I personally don't have a problem with the idea of a monster or two being inside a secret but I know some people don't like that (monsters in secrets was discussed at length in another thread quite recently).

[TheDarkArchon]

Secrets are like a spice to the meal of a map. Having too few secrets and the map may feel bland. Too many and they will completely overpower the regular map and make it feel pointless. Get it right and the secret will greatly enhance the map.

[Tetzlaff]

Secret areas add another layer of space to a level, they make a level "deeper" in a way. It feels like a more coherent 3D world with secret areas included. Without any secret spaces to explore, a level can feel somehow flat, like a scenery.

[Hellbent]

Foodles said:

When mapping, secret areas are usually the bottom of my list of priorities and so I end up just throwing some in after I have mapped the level.
How important to your gaming experience are secret areas and should secrets be really hard to find? Also how many secret areas should be included in a map and how large should these areas be, should they just be a single room with and invisibility sphere in or (like in the original Doom) should there be large sections of a map that are secret?

To me secret areas are really important and can enhance a map in a really big way. For me a secret area should NOT be a simple room with a power up (like on e1m8, although that was a cool secret to find). A secret should feel like you've reached some secret part of the map or that is forbidden and you shouldn't be going there. The rocket launcher sludge hall in e1m3 is a quintessential example of this, as well as the risen bridge leading to the secret level. It's hard to get the difficulty of secrets right. I have to admit I make secrets too hard to find in my maps. The more creative you are in making the hint for the secret the better.

Secrets should be varying sizes. I also love secrets within secrets, but it has to be done well. Some classic examples are E2M8 of Wolfenstein 3D--the secret puzzle on E4M2 of Wolfenstein, the tekwall secret on E2M2 of Doom (where you keep finding new secrets in the tekwall rooms). Good ways of making secrets within secrets is to make the secret area leave you unsatisfied.. or curious. This is a strange or spooky place.. why do I feel like there is another secret in here? One way to augment this, which I haven't seen done too much, is to have a major enemy in the secret. E4M7 does this, but the secret area isn't different enough/separate feeling enough from the rest of the level to succeed in being a really cool secret. It doesn't have the sense of doom and forboding a good secret with a major monster in it should have.

Secret areas have so much potential to give a map depth, mystery and atmosphere. In Uacexp.wad I tried to give that sense of mystery with a major secret in the map--but in retrospect I realize I failed. I made the sludge tunnel too long and the secret itself wasn't quite compelling enough. I love maps with great secret areas, but it is really hard to do. I agree 8 secrets to a map is a good number. Unless you are dealing with secrets within secrets, you generally don't want too many in a map (unless the map is very big).

If you're making big or elaborate secrets, they shouldn't dead end, but drop you off in some part of the level. If you don't want the player to be advanced in the level through the secret, a good way to drop them off is to have the outlet to the secret some place where you've already been, but an area you couldn't reach. This is the best way to have an elaborate secret or series of secrets end. Backtracking out of a big secret area can often be a bit of a let down (although not always--all depends on how the secret is constructed and the part of the level it takes place). Backtracking out of a secret, especially one that gives you important stuff, is probably less of a let down near the end of a level.

In conclusion, a secret area should feel distinct from the rest of the level--it should have some unique aspect to it that makes it a secret and not just another area in your map.

[hervoheebo]

Secret areas are cool if you can stumble upon them and actually find them without looking up a walkthrough or a FAQ. A secret too obscure is a secret nonexistent, in my opinion.
They should include aid which is useful, but not necessary to complete the map/WAD. Shortcuts etc. can be good too if implemented correctly.

[Hellbent]

Grazza said:

Never put keys in secret areas.

I strongly disagree. But I realize you are talking about keys that you MUST get in order to exit the level. In a late level in Wolfestein 3D (I think episode 6 level 7) you needed to find a secret to get the key to exit the level. Why do I remember the levels from a game I haven't played in decades? Because the secret areas in Wolf3D were the most compelling part of the game. I LOVED finding the secrets. It was like being on a quest--it almost reached a spiritual-type level of zeal--like the bad guy in Raiders of the Lost Ark in his search for the Ark (maybe that's why crate rooms are so popular in Doom....) or Indian Jones' quest for the Holy Grail--I felt like the quest for secrets would have some transformitive effect on me. Then again, Doom sorta gave me that experience without the secrets, especially reaching the bosses--that's why E3M8 was such a let down (the map could have been made in 20 minutes--it also didn't have the sense of hellish progression like the opener of the episode did, but I digress).

For me secrets where keys are required bring the level of mystery/depth to the secret area up a notch. Doom did this a lot. Both levels 1 and 2 of Shores of Hell did this. The secret on E1M3 is a quintessential example of an excellent secret that required a key. The yellow door was in some remote area of the map. If you didn't have the yellow key, you burned with curiosity as to what was behind that door. It's also fun to get to the end of a level and realize you didn't use one of the keys. "What was this key for?" (see The Unholy Cathedral, e3m5). In homage of my love of the hidden key, I made a wad called yellowkey.wad, but it didn't really capture the atmosphere of secret finding that I was hoping for. In the version of squipple.wad by goldenhog that I edited, I was more successful in creating good secrets in line with my criteria for compelling secrets.

[Hellbent]

hervoheebo said:

Secret areas are cool if you can stumble upon them and actually find them without looking up a walkthrough or a FAQ. A secret too obscure is a secret nonexistent, in my opinion.

I see what your saying and I agree with you on one level. On another, though, a tough to find secret can be more rewarding to find, if you can find it. Wall humping was all the rage in Wolf3D, and it was very rewarding/exciting to finally find those damned well hidden secrets. Of course, that method is not longer viable today. But you're right, a cleverly hidden secret is better than one that is just too obscure or difficult to find or figure out. (E4M2 of wolf3d was really hard--I spent days trying to figure out that puzzle! But it was so sweet when I finally figured it out).

[Jodwin]

Hellbent said:

The secret on E1M3 is a quintessential example of an excellent secret that required a key. The yellow door was in some remote area of the map. If you didn't have the yellow key, you burned with curiosity as to what was behind that door.

That's very different since the key itself was not in a secret, but the door was in a secret area. I'm pretty sure everyone who actually found the door had found the key before hand just for that reason. Anyway, putting anything needed to complete a level into a secret is like being kicked in the nuts repeatedly by the mapper while the map's testers are taking turns shoving their balls on your face, but if that's your kind of thing, go ahead.

[Creaphis]

I can't believe how much I agree with Hellbent's posts. That almost never happens.

If you're mapping, and you feel uninterested in secrets but obligated to include them, so you tuck a small closet into your map with an extra box of shells, then you really needn't have bothered. Good secrets are those that add depth to the level, those that feel "forbidden," etc. Finding a good secret is a reward in itself, because these let you appreciate the level's architecture from another angle - they let you see the level's underbelly, so to speak. The creepiest thing that you put in your level should be in a secret.

That's not to say that a level should be densely packed with grand secrets like these, or that all secrets have to be this way. There's room in almost any level for a hidden closet with twenty shells. But, once in a while, when a player finds a secret, he should be rewarded for his efforts with the sensation that he has encountered the unknown.

[40oz]

I don't think it's bad to put essential things in a secret area. It depends heavily on how difficult the secret is to find. The secrets in Doom 1 were very obvious and provided pretty good rewards. In more detailed maps, it's kinda difficult to include blatantly obvious secrets in a detailed map that doesn't make your map look stupid.

Usually when I make maps, I make an honest effort to include at least a few secrets. It's mostly for safety in the reviews of my maps in case someone who plays the map thinks it is too difficult. If they are better at finding secret areas than dodging attacks or conserving ammo, that will give them an edge and make the map more playable for them.

I usually make my secrets kinda obvious too. As hervoheebo said, if people can't or don't find the secret, then I may has well have not made it at all, as it will be a part of the map I spent time mapping for that people don't even get to play in.

[Bank]

Secrets don't have to be as hidden as you may be led to believe, take the Soul Sphere in E1M3. I like most people saw this big blue sphere in plain view and wanted it, but didn't know how to get it until much later on. It's an enticing secret but a secret none the less.

[Jodwin]

40oz said:

I don't think it's bad to put essential things in a secret area. It depends heavily on how difficult the secret is to find.

Hiding anything truly essential in a secret would be acceptable only in a puzzle adventure game, and even then only if the game was giving you some kind of explicit clues (think scattered notes telling you that "the control panel is the key", and using the right panel you could open a wall leading to a real key or something). Not so in Doom where seeing a blue door, no keys and no areas left that you haven't visited makes you think that the mapper never tested his map, rather than "Oh, what a clever bastard that 40oz was! I shall proceed to wallhump each and every inch of these linedefs to find the hidden key because that is so awesome and 1994!"

[hervoheebo]

I haven't heard of keys in secret areas, but it sounds like a cool idea. If done correctly, of course. Keys themselves have a lot of potential in clever design.

I get what Hellbent is saying, but my views are more on the regards of small pwads, which are the majority. Finding an obscure secret could be a boastworthy deed, but in the end, who cares? Unless the wad is a very significant one, I doubt that many care for extensive secret hunting. What I'm saying is that probably most authors implement secrets as something the usual player would find, someone who downloads a wad because he heard it's good, plays through it once and then forgets it, repeated playthroughs barring if the wad is really good.

Finding new things on old map sets is still neat. There's many times I can think of when I dig through some old stock map and find out something I didn't know even existed. But those kind of things should be left for more ambitious projects you know people play a lot. But, that's just, you know, my opinion, man.

[Mechadon]

Secrets are very important. But don't tell anyone, it's a secret.

[40oz]

Jodwin said:

Not so in Doom where seeing a blue door, no keys and no areas left that you haven't visited makes you think that the mapper never tested his map, rather than "Oh, what a clever bastard that 40oz was! I shall proceed to wallhump each and every inch of these linedefs to find the hidden key because that is so awesome and 1994!"

Well contrary to what you said, the secret area is an area you haven't visited. By that I mean secret areas aren't always entitled to being areas that are hidden by a door that uses a texture other than a door texture. This is what I have in mind:



In this scenario, ground level is the bottom of the image. At ground level you can take a lift or teleport or stairs or something to get to where the start of the dotted blue arrow. The dotted blue arrow is a hallway inside an enclosed area, that leads to a ledge. The hallway is designed so that the player would be moving forward through it, and toward a gap that needs to be jumped across to get to the ledge where the red door is. The secret area is highlighted in orange which is hidden just around the opening of the hallway, so that the player would have to move against the general flow of the map in order to find it. It's not a difficult secret at all, but it's not in plain view and you kinda have to go out of your way to get to it.

If you follow the general flow of the map, you play it. If you try to go against the general flow of the map, you locate secrets. That might not be difficult enough for you to consider it a secret, but if you give it sector effect #9, it's a secret.

[SYS]

Secrets can be utilized in difficult maps to ease up the difficulty a little. If they're made easy enough to find it can tip the balance more towards the player. It's still very much possible to complete the map without secrets. Yet the player's experience suddenly gets a little more leisurely as they stumble across that extra mega armor, set of stimpacks, or that couple extra rockets.

[GreyGhost]

Secrets become more important as you get older - especially stuff like wills. Keeping my relatives in the dark as to the disposition of my estate is probably one of the few things that's keeping me alive. ;-)

[ReX]

1. Secrets add to the fun factor of a level. The feeling of having figured out what the map's author was trying to hide from you can be very satisfying. Therefore, including one or more sectrets improve the playability of a map.
2. Including one or two difficult-to-find secrets provides some intrigue, that may prompt players to play the map again to discover secrets that they missed on the first pass.
3. It is important to provide visual/audio clues: Mismatched or misaligned texture, light seeping out from an improperly closed section of wall, the sound of a nearby door opening/closing.
4. Keeping a goodie in plain sight but semingly impossible to reach can be very tantalizing. Many people have pointed out the Soul Sphere in E1M3. (The outdoor area in E1M7 is another good example.) Such puzzles truly make the player scratch their heads, and provide all the more satisfaction when solved.
5. Some secrets should be tucked away where a player may not immediately think of searching. E1M7 has an area that opens up to release enemies, and unless the player explores the section that opened up, s/he will miss the secret passageway to the outside.
6. Use creative ways to reach secrets. For example, in one map of "Eternal DooM III", the only way to reach a secret area is to let an arch-vile "levitate" you to the ledge. In "The Darkest Hour", the way to reach the "super secret level" is to rocket-jump over a fence. In E3M5, the only way to reach the "super secret level" is to rocket-push yourself over the low wall.

[Hellbent]

ReX said:

In E3M5, the only way to reach the "super secret level" is to rocket-push yourself over the low wall.

You mean E3M6. In Zdoom you can make it by running if you get the angle just right. Not sure if it's possible in doom.exe, tho.

[Ichor]

Hellbent said:

You mean E3M6. In Zdoom you can make it by running if you get the angle just right. Not sure if it's possible in doom.exe, tho.

Not that I know of. However, I heard that in doom.exe you can hit the switch from outside if you position yourself just right. I'm not sure about this though.

[Creaphis]

Ichor said:

Not that I know of. However, I heard that in doom.exe you can hit the switch from outside if you position yourself just right. I'm not sure about this though.

This was true in an earlier version of e3m6 and is no longer. Strafe-running into the box is still possible though, even in vanilla.

[tempun]

Creaphis said:

This was true in an earlier version of e3m6 and is no longer. Strafe-running into the box is still possible though, even in vanilla.

Yes pressing switch from outside is still possible in Ultimate Doom.

[RestlessRodent]

E1M3 was a good map. It had multiple secrets.

It had the soulsphere in the window.
The small columned room with the rocket launcher which leads to an even smaller backpack.
Yellow key that was easily missed.
Window that opened into tech room which has no visible doors in it.
Secret room with door requiring key and containing armor.

[TimeOfDeath]

I think everyone has made good points and suggestions about making cool secret areas. Though personally, I say rules shmules. Do anything, do everything, I don't care. If your secrets are hella hard to find, then include demos. Or don't include demos, whatever, and make your secrets almost impossible to find/activate even when looking at the map in an editor. That would be funny. It's all good.

I think it's fun and funny to make secret sectors out of every single sector the player can step on. That way they have to step on every single part of the map for a max demo and maybe some parts would require strafe-running or jumping or whatever. lols good times.