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Hellbent

DTWID: Project is done, check the release thread

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@carl: I do believe Marnetmar's map is in the E2M2 slot is probably why he responded in frustration.

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Oh, derp. Well like I said, it's not like I'm gunning for the E2M2 slot, it's just there to indicate that this isn't an M1 candidate.

Besides, you could extend the deadline another year and I still wouldn't be able to make a map better than Marnetmar anyway. :P

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Hey guys, I know I dropped out of this project, but I had a bit of inspiration and am about 90% complete on an E3M2 map, as It says in the Thread title you need E3 Maps.

It's some new stuff mixed in with recycled re textured parts of other maps I submitted previously, here are some screenshots:




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Mithran Denizen said:

I think he means testing whether or not the maps will still get playable framerates on the same hardware that Doom ran smoothly on. Complex maps that are perfectly 'vanilla compatible' might run like molasses with vintage hardware, even if they can be played hassle-free in DOSBox on a modern machine. Not that I think many of the DTWiD submissions need to worry about this at all.

It's easy enough to run vanilla Doom on a modern machine (albeit without sound). If it crashes, there's your answer. Barring that, you can turn on the ticker, either in vanilla or ZDoom, and see what maximums you get on the original levels. Them simply keep under that for the corresponding DTWID level.

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phobosdeimos1 said:

Pictures

I think that Cacodemon is looking for secrets. In the first shot the texture change between gray rock and the hanging baron is pretty abrupt, may want to throw a transition texture between 'em? Other than that it looks pretty deliciously red, keep up the good work!

Also on that note, if we're REALLY hurting for E3 maps and the E2 maps are already decided, I could try and rework the map I just submitted some into an E3. Well, if we need to, I'm kind of lazy. :P

EDIT: Also also, could someone in charge of the submission site link my account with the current listing for "Weapons Research" so I can upload this new version/pictures? Thanks!

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ultimatecarl said:

I think that Cacodemon is looking for secrets. In the first shot the texture change between gray rock and the hanging baron is pretty abrupt, may want to throw a transition texture between 'em? Other than that it looks pretty deliciously red, keep up the good work!

Also on that note, if we're REALLY hurting for E3 maps and the E2 maps are already decided, I could try and rework the map I just submitted some into an E3. Well, if we need to, I'm kind of lazy. :P


Thanks man, DW had already noticed that just after I posted the shots and changed it

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I've started work on an E3 map. I'm not sure how it will turn out (or whether it will be finished at all). I'm still working out a layout and haven't added any detail or monsters yet. I've kept fairly up to date with the thread here and played both the original E3 and the DTWiD beta so I have a rough idea what I'm doing but I'll still welcome tips, hints and guidance if anyone wants to give it.

Screenshots to follow at some point, possibly.

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Marnetmar said:

Finally done!

Have you started converting my E1 map to E3M1?

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Processingcontrol said:

Have you started converting my E1 map to E3M1?


I had started, but your map seems to have magically disappeared from my drive...Most likely my fault, can you provide another link?

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For those who don't know, Engineer, who was formerly mapping for this project died on the 26th of September.

Technician suggested that we finish his map as a tribute to him, and I'm sure that Engineer wanted his map to be included in the wad. While we most likely can't get a hold of the map itself, I'm sure we could work from the screenshots he posted here.

I think it would be very honorable if each of us did a small amount of work on this and included it in the finished project. From what I can infer, his map was for E2M2. I'd be more than willing to withdraw my map for his to be included.

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Marnetmar said:

I think it would be very honorable if each of us did a small amount of work on this and included it in the finished project. From what I can infer, his map was for E2M2. I'd be more than willing to withdraw my map for his to be included.

Taking a look at those screenshots of his, I'd say that a good case could be made for an e2m9 map being constructed - a slot in the project that has yet to be convincingly filled, I think. The rooms are simple enough that they could be worked toward a more peculiar design or layout, along with what appears to be a mostly uniform texture selection. I'm not entirely sure it would be best to have multiple people working on the map as opposed to just one, but the idea of having it completed (or reimagined) by any number of mappers alone is absolutely wonderful.

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Marnetmar said:

For those who don't know, Engineer, who was formerly mapping for this project died on the 26th of September.


Oh my god. That's a terrible things to hear, my condolences to his family.

From where did you get this?

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For testing how well the game would run on a 386/486, DOSBox has options to set the processor type emulated and its speed. According to this website, a 16MHz 386 runs at 5 MIPS and a 33MHz 386 at 11.4 MIPS. According to the DOSBox wiki, to emulate the performance of a 33MHz 386, you would add these lines to your DOSBox configuration file (they're under [cpu] in the default one):

cputype=386
cycles=max limit 11400

From the above frequencies and MIPS values, 386s have a MIPS/MHz ratio of about 0.333. This means other 386 speeds can be emulated by multiplying their clock frequency by 333 and putting that number (or a number close to it) as the cycles value.

EDIT: These numbers seem right. I playtested the 33MHz settings in shareware Doom and it's just fast enough to play E1M1 and E1M2 somewhat choppily at the default graphics settings. If I set cycles to 5000 (which would be roughly equivalent to a 16MHz 386) then I have to reduce the screen size and/or set quality to low.

EDIT EDIT: If you want to emulate a 486, the MIPS/MHz ratio is closer to 0.8. So what you would do is set cputype to 486_slow and then multiply the clock frequency of the 486 you want to emulate by 800 to get its cycle value.

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I'm a bit annoyed that throughout this whole project, no one dared to attempt an 'If Sandy did an E1M1-7 map'

I think it would of been really fun to try, although I can see how within the rules of the project it wouldn't of been mistakeable as an E1 map (because of course in order for it to be it has to be as if Romero had made it)

I remember I was going to try to make one back when I thought it was a 'lost levels' WAD as aposed to what it actually is

Maybe one day someone can try, it would be really interesting. I love Sandy's maps (The EXCLUSIVELY Sandy ones) so i've got this picture of an action packed level with jumbled up E1 textures, attractively misaligned walls and simple fun challenging non-linear gameplay. Well it's hard to put a finger on the magic behind Sandy's design talent but hey he is literally a Pro-Standard mapper.

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phobosdeimos1 said:

I'm a bit annoyed that throughout this whole project, no one dared to attempt an 'If Sandy did an E1M1-7 map'

I think it would of been really fun to try, although I can see how within the rules of the project it wouldn't of been mistakeable as an E1 map (because of course in order for it to be it has to be as if Romero had made it)

I remember I was going to try to make one back when I thought it was a 'lost levels' WAD as aposed to what it actually is

Maybe one day someone can try, it would be really interesting. I love Sandy's maps (The EXCLUSIVELY Sandy ones) so i've got this picture of an action packed level with jumbled up E1 textures, attractively misaligned walls and simple fun challenging non-linear gameplay. Well it's hard to put a finger on the magic behind Sandy's design talent but hey he is literally a Pro-Standard mapper.

I actually wondered about exactly this same thing a while back. I think it'd be an interesting experiment, for sure, though it'd likely be very difficult to achieve an E1 design that's distinctly Sandyish enough to actually be recognized as such, and not appear as a failed attempt to emulate Romero.

For what it's worth, though, I have to note that Romero's texture alignment was at least as bad as Sandy's, often possibly worse. :P
The both of them tended to leave things aligned to 0,0 if they could get away with it, but there's a surprising amount of careful alignment in a lot of Sandy's maps if you look for it.
(Check out that SP_ROCK1 in e2m9!)

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I reckon if ever I attempt to emulate a Romero E1 mapping style, I'd end up with a Sandy Peterson styled map using E1 textures... this was actually my only reason for never considering actually making an E1 map for this project.

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esselfortium said:

(Check out that SP_ROCK1 in e2m9!)

There is a sad irony here. :-/ maybe he wasn't kidding..

EDIT: I played my e1m* level at 386/33mhz speeds and it is slower than the other e1 levels. Not really sure why. Could be monster count. Has anyone else tried their levels at 386/33?

EDIT: I noticed something about e1 levels. You never have to go far before coming to a key door. In all 7 levels it's a short distance to a key door. In my e1m* you have to travel quite far before getting to the first key door. :-/

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Hellbent said:

I noticed something about e1 levels. You never have to go far before coming to a key door. In all 7 levels it's a short distance to a key door. In my e1m* you have to travel quite far before getting to the first key door. :-/


E1M3, E1M6, E1M7 blue key doors.

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Nice observation Essel! Yeah well maybe we could do a DTWID spin-off, and secretly make it better MUA HA HA

Phobus: Do it (please), if you think that's how it'll turn out (hoping you're not just saying that Sandy's Maps are a bad Romero attempt) then it would be great to see,

your E3 map is virtually definitely gonna be in the final release so just make a 'Sandy's E1 map' even if it might not get in the final release, we'll all still play it and i'll definitely really enjoy it!

Margeret Thatcher over

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My point is more that my maps naturally feature the more loose, chaotic theming of Sandy's maps (due to being built around gameplay primarily) than Romero's more co-ordinated efforts (a more balanced blend of gameplay and architecture).

I've got to make my CC4 map first, but if that's done by November 1st, and the Back to Saturn X team aren't prodding me for work on my second submission there, I'll look into trying my hand at an E1 map.

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Yikes, I surprised myself with the 386 emulation in DOSBox. I figured Doom would have been somewhat choppy on one of those but not THAT bad. Fortunately my E2M2 and the DTWID alpha levels I tried out (mainly the bigger ones like E3M9) seemed to run like pretty much any other Doom level on that hardware.

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