DTWID: Project is done, check the release thread

[NaturalTvventy]

-_DLD_- said:

Spoiler

The weird walls kept making me think. Since I think I found them all (I got 100% secrets), I'm wondering, how do they corrispond to the level? Does each one open a segment of the "big secret" area(s)? Are they just spooky decoration?

Spoiler

those 'secrets' are simply aesthetic. I threw 'em in there for a couple reasons. One, to poke fun at all the typical DOOM secrets - slightly different texture, slightly misaligned texture, candle in front of wall... all those secrets we've seen a million million times.
Second was to make it a bit more on the edge of hell... When I play through it and open it up, it's like I'm breaking the illusion of where I am, and it makes me wonder if the whole place is just hell F'n with me. It's my take on the whole halfway to hell theme of e2. I find it pretty creepy if I do say so myself. And FYI no, they don't count towards your secrets in the end.

Very glad you enjoyed the map :)

[Marnetmar]

Here's the new E1M1!

http://www.mediafire.com/?583ql3co3k2coul

Things to note:

-The secrets are fairly easy to figure out, in fact two of them are identical, because my idea was just to be introducing the player to the concept of secrets
-There are two bugs I can't seem to fix. One of them is after activating the secret that leads outside, a HOM appears under the door required to get there. There's a stair rising mechanism that causes some stairs to rise by 8, but the last stair on the right does not raise all the way.

I'm stumped on why these two bugs are there. All the sectors are correctly tagged, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the nodes...

Does anyone have any ideas why this happens?

[Hellbent]

stairs operate best if the sectors for the stairs are built from first stair rising to last stair rising. In other words, the stair sector that is giong to rise first should be built first (yes, it actually matters) and the one that raises last should be built last. It actually makes a difference if they are built in the right order.

Xaser wrote in a PM on 07-26-11 23:23:
I'm really interested to hear what your thoughts are on the alpha thus far. You're the man on this, after all. :)

Thanks to everyone for putting so much time and effort into this project. It's great that it finally got off the ground and that the momentum has been moving positively forward and we now have a very strong, full 3 episode playable alpha. The following are my thoughts on the alpha and what things we need to work on in general.

I can relate to a lot of the comments in this thread, positive and constructive. On the one hand I'm really impressed by all the great maps submitted and the consistency of quality in the alpha. Some of the criticisms, such as that there are few memorable places in e1 or that it's a smorgasbord of e1 elements but each map doesn't have a unified theme or something to set it apart or for it to be anchored by are comments we should look at closely. What about the maps and how we are going about building them has led to such comments? Why is E1 suffering the most in this aspect? I thought E2 and E3 were the strongest episodes. E3M9, for me, is a shining example of what the id secret levels should have been like, but is it dtwid? Not quite sure, but for me it taps into what my idea of a secret level should have been like if id had put more time and thought into them. I really liked your e2m1, Xaser. I found the homages less distracting than the other homages sprinkled throughout the alhpa--yet the consensus in the feedback seems to be that the map should not stand as is.

I think that some of the maps might be too abstract. Romero had said abstract is good but that you don't want to go too crazy. While Phbosdiemos1's post of American McGee's comments don't really apply to this project, the part about logic does. id maps were abstract, but there was a "logic" to each map that held it together and anchored it in reality as a distinct map--a distinct and real location... a tangible ...tho abstract... reality. You could almost say Doom represents "magical realism" at its finest. It is anchored in its own, abstract reality.

Our progress in the project thus far:
We've got the abstract down--we've got the texturing down to a large degree--we've got the atmosphere down--we've got the individual elements that are the essence of doomness down, but we still don't quite have a handle on that je ne sais quoi that makes the original doom levels distinctive and memorable. I think it comes down to that bit about "sense of place" that I've talked about at various points throughout this project's development (which may or may not be clear to people what I mean by it). To help clarify what I mean, I'll make a list of levels in the alpha that I think pull it off very well or at least quite well.

basically the entire e3.
E2M9,
E2M8 in conception, but some of the texturing doesn't quite work for me.
E2M7 although it's a pretty big map. One thing that occurs to me is that the bigger and more complex the map, the harder it is to maintain a convincing level of 'sense of place', particularly in E2 since it has the most "colorful" arrangement of textures than the other episodes (in the original game and in this alpha).
E2M6, although it might have too many themes and too much going on overall.
E2M5 -- a great map, but it's sense of place is slightly suspect. Also a lot going on in this map.
E2M4 -- a bit two sided-sidef heavy but for the most part strong sense of place.
E2M3 -- I actually thought this map was a bit too literal and thus didn't really fit the more abstract original Episode 2; but at the same time, it doesn't have a strong sense of place for me. Bit of an oddball map. I think NT's E2M4 is a better candidate for "Biosphere"--plenty of vines, dead trees and radioactive stuff going on to have a more loose affiliation to the name (think Tower of Babel--where's the tower?--hence I like NT's E2M4 for biosphere since it's less literal to the name while still having things about it that fit the name).

E2M2--cooling towers succeeds because it has a unified theme anchoring the map in reality (even if that reality is abstract). The slime-ways, the consistent vine walls and the overall layout just succeed well in the sense of place department.

Basically sense of place means it feels like the level is grounded in reality, even if that reality is strange and difficult to define. It means that the level isn't so abstract that it's just a collection of random shapes, textures and locations, but you have a sense that you are progressing through a plausible place that might actually exist. It probably also means there is some kind of consistency underpinning the map and holding it together.

The original e2m4 is a great example of an abstract map that has a strong sense of place. The slimeways and consistency of blue computer panels make this map succeed in this way. A puzzle tho: the map has about 4 distinct areas that are all different from each other and thus seem like they should be at odds with each other, and yet the map works very well ... why? I think if people can posit plausible explanation for this conundrum it might help us in understanding why certain maps work better than others and maybe why E1 is suffering the most in the 'sense of place' department. I suppose one reason this map succeeds so well is because the 4 distinct areas lend the map a strong sense of progression, something that is at times lacking in some of the alpha maps (which ones? feel free to elaborate on this for me as this post is getting a bit long).

To clarify the 4 main distinct areas:
1. the main slimeway-compblue panel area.
2. the uber-red room
3. the final confrontation--marble pit room
4. and the lava and pipewall side area.

Overall I think the alpha's E1 maps are weakest as far as having a strong sense of place.

***************

There is so much creativity in the original doom. It's hard to match that level of creativity without kind of going off the deep end so to speak; flying the coop. And then it's always a constant struggle to be creative in a way that seems conceivable as something id might have done.

The other thing that sort of occurs to me is that we have hardened ideas about what is legit in an authentic id map and what is not. But the creators did not have these feelings of constraint. Sometimes I think maybe we are limiting ourselves too much in our creativity in order to remain authentic. Constrain creativity too much, and you invariably wind up with too many homages. Let loose the reigns of creativity too much and it seems inevitable that you will go astray of the Doom universe. One possible solution to this is to clearly make a distinction between novel things in each doom map and motifs. Some examples of motifs are common texture combinations, sector heights, contrast in sector differentials (and light and texturing) etc. An important motif to maintain in E1 is the types of outdoor areas there are. I think this would be a good thing to mimic and be consistent with in our E1 maps--something we should NOT try to freshen up or do variations on. We should really mimic how Romero did the outdoor areas--because he was very consistent in how he did them. It's a motif that should be copied, not reinvented. What are some other motifs?

American McGee talked about the necessity of constraints, but we aren't trying to mimic his style. The only real constraints Romero and Petersen were operating under were the performing power of PCs in 1993, which I think are damn good constraints to keep in mind while working on this project. As much as I love NT's E3M9, would it run well on a 486? Probably not. The other "constraint" they were operating under was the consistency of their own aesthetic tastes, determined by who they are, and therefore, something they were probably by and large not conscious of. That's what makes this project such a beautiful (and brilliantly tough) challenge. We have to think like they did and see the doom universe the way they did.

As far as release dates, Dec. 10 seems logical and maybe release just E1 in time for Thanksgiving.

EDIT: I just got a crazy idea for a secret level involving doors. Could be creepy....

[Marnetmar]

The stair sectors were actually created in the correct order. Have you actually played the map HB? If so, what do you think?

[Hellbent]

Marnetmar said:

The stair sectors were actually created in the correct order. Have you actually played the map HB? If so, what do you think?

I think it's very strong. I don't like the pillars outside tho. I think overall you could reduce the number of vertices on the 2-sided linedefs in the map (namely the ones outside). I didn't really like how quickly you get the shotgun. One thing that I think would be good to mimic about the original e1 is the ability to explore a little bit before making contact with any monsters. May I edit the map with some ideas? if not, I would suggest maybe adding a short hallway to linedef 235 which leads to what you could make as the start room (if that makes sense)--so the start room would be parallel to sector 9 (or more precisely, sector 86).

[Moustachio]

@Hellbent - So the mapping "outline" should go something like this?:

1. Think of semi-realistic location. For example, a radio tower.

2. Plan map accordingly. Think of cool things that you would find in said location, what kind of textures to use, basic layout, etc.

3. Map the map. Be sure to have a rough layout and a clear goal in your mind. Be sure to use some of Romero's guidelines.

4. Revise the map. Change textures and areas to look more realistic, abstract, memorable, etc.

What do you think?

[Hellbent]

Yeah... something like that. I think maybe the idea is that you want your map to have a set of rules which it is more or less consistent to, and you don't want anything in the map to be specifically recognizable in this universe such as a radio tower or an H helicopter landing. It needs to remain abstract, while still feeling like it could be a real place--just not a place you'd find on earth--hence my reference to 'magic realism'.

Edit: like.. what is E3M4 House of Pain? Hard to relate it to anything we know in this real world, this is what is compelling (for me) about Doom. It has strong atmosphere and it seems like Petersen had some kind of concept or goal in mind before he just started drawing random abstract rooms and texturs. For instance, the map starts with dank dungeons and fire and brimstone. The use of contrast is also really important. One of the problems with one of 40oz's E1 map is that it's very homogenous (not to single you out--one of your e1 maps was mentioned earlier as not quite cutting the mustard, but the reason was unknown--I think it's important for us to try to nail down the reasons). I use this term to denote maps that lack distinct, memorable areas or areas that seem to have a grounding in some guiding concept or goal and or lack variety. one way variety is achieved is through the use of contrast. You can have contrast in lighting, texture use (a great one), sector heights, dark and light etc. For instance, in E3M4 you start in the depths, in dungeons, then you rise up to the light--you're on something of a demon's innards with these cut out crushing things (house of pain indeed) then you move back indoors--back into the dark--house of pain proper--where there are lots of tortured souls on sticks etc and windows into torture chambers--and then you enter a torture chamber after getting the blue key--and then there is a series of chambers and then one of them is a puzzle--causing you mental agony--etc... so while it's all quite abstract, the whole thing is grounded in a concept--a goal if you will--that the mapper had in mind and carried through without any overt realistic portrayals--none of e3m4 or most anything else in the doom universe would you find in real life. Another good example is e3m5 as it is based on a circular design concept. 40oz did a very good job of recreating what the mappers had in mind when making various maps (including, I think, House of pain) maybe you could dig those up and post them 40oz? That'd be great.

E3, in a way, is easier to map for than e2 because the maps often have a clear design motif (e3m5 is based around a circular design) e3m2 a hand, e3m7 more uniform texture use.

[Moustachio]

So, more like subliminal hints about locations? For example, Toxin Refinery has a lot of slime, House of Pain has many noticeable torture scenes going on, and Computer Station and Central Processing have a bunch of computer textures. Maybe, instead of something that resembles a radio tower in a realistic sense, the map has parts that makes your mind think of a radio tower, like having highly elevated portions of the map.

EDIT: The best part of Doom for me is trying to piece together the location, and the impression the maps leave me. For example, E1M1 is a Hangar, so there is a large open space outside (Which makes me think of a landing pad) with an opening into the base (Which further hints at a hangar). When I first played through E1M1, it left me a completely other-worldly impression on me. Especially, when I went up to the green armor room and looked outside to see a world that was different from ours, yet felt like a real location.

[Hellbent]

Yeah, that sounds about right. I guess that's what makes this project so difficult--you have to come up with a concept that is abstract versus one that is literal. It's much easier to build a realistic map around a realistic hangar than one that is just sort of loosely based off of a Hangar (I don't know how e1m1 is a Hangar ??). I think ideally the best way to approach mapping for this project is to come up with an abstract concept, or just a general idea of what you want your map to accomplish. It doesn't have to just be physical locations driving the design of your map. The main idea around which the design of your map might be based could be gameplay--if you want a map that at some parts frightens you, has periods of intense battles and then quiet, suspenseful moody periods--just those concepts alone could inform ideas about what kind of structures and areas your map might take on--what kind of lighting you'd use etc.. I think having any kind of idea and sticking to it throughout the mapping process will help lend the map the cohesiveness that some feel the E1 maps in the alpha lack.

... this is all just my $0.02 of course. If anyone has any other ideas or disagree with me or want to elaborate on any of my points etc., please don't hesitate to share your thoughts.

[Hellbent]

Matt534Dog said:

EDIT: The best part of Doom for me is trying to piece together the location, and the impression the maps leave me. For example, E1M1 is a Hangar, so there is a large open space outside (Which makes me think of a landing pad) with an opening into the base (Which further hints at a hangar). When I first played through E1M1, it left me a completely other-worldly impression on me. Especially, when I went up to the green armor room and looked outside to see a world that was different from ours, yet felt like a real location.

Yes! Precisely. The level feels otherwordly, yet feels like a real location. I think that's the real goal--or at least one of the goals we need to focus on at this stage in our evolutionary process of becoming masters of id design. :)

[Phobus]

Hellbent said:

E2M5 -- a great map, but it's sense of place is slightly suspect. Also a lot going on in this map.

The sense of place is off because I originally intended it for E3. Were it not for how it blends with the vagueness of the rest of our E2 I'd say it needs to be in E3. As things stand it is more of a condensed set of ideas that I'd cobbled together when trying to think "id". This would also explain why there's so much going on in the map and so many different themes. It kind of appears that the greater your altitude, the less hellish the environment, but that wasn't entirely intentional.

One thing though - I would really prefer that the barrel trap remain.

[Lorenzo]

Hi.

I've lost track of all comments on the alpha version wad and in specific about my levels e1m4 and e2m3.
Is there a way to organise all comments? Like a "TODO" page on Xaser's site?

Regarding the tribute area in e1m4... well yes, I took inspiration from the very same area from the original e1m4. I just addded the trap because... because I've always thought that the 2 computers HAD to lower in a way or in the other... and never found out HOW.

I'll modify it.

Regarding Botanic Biosphere, actually I'm adding more areas to it so it will be a bigger in the next version.

L.

[Marnetmar]

Hellbent said:

I think it's very strong. I don't like the pillars outside tho. I think overall you could reduce the number of vertices on the 2-sided linedefs in the map (namely the ones outside). I didn't really like how quickly you get the shotgun. One thing that I think would be good to mimic about the original e1 is the ability to explore a little bit before making contact with any monsters. May I edit the map with some ideas? if not, I would suggest maybe adding a short hallway to linedef 235 which leads to what you could make as the start room (if that makes sense)--so the start room would be parallel to sector 9 (or more precisely, sector 86).

Glad to hear! Feel free to edit the map if you think it will improve it.

[Hellbent]

40oz interpretation of E3M4. Everyone should read this:

"Looking at some of Doom 1's maps, and comparing it to my own map design, usually when I'm designing maps I'm paying close attention to designing cool rooms and what will look best in game, while in Doom's case, it appears as though the mappers were more interested what would make the best adventure. They evidently had experience in doing so from playing dungeons and dragons all the time. This can be seen very well in the editor view of E3M4 Hellbent posted. Here's my breakdown of E3M4

This map has a lot of winding hallways and places to explore. It is apparent that Sandy Petersen visualized the House of Pain to be a series of dungeons made up of dark corridors, with treacherous obstacles in between, such as that zig-zaggy catwalk suspended over a pool of blood in which cacodemons belch fireballs at you from their cells. Of course there had to be secret areas and rooms with demonic treasures, such as that berserk room. But what would hell be if there weren't consequences for touching it's prized possessions? It was a trap! The wall ahead rises and the demons and lost souls swarm in! Already the House of Pain begins to feel like an Indiana Jones movie.

Upon moving up the ominous steps, it's unclear what horrors lie ahead. Reaching the end of the corridor there is a door illuminated by a lone candle. There's the crushing ceilings with the chaingun and the invulnerability sphere under them. There are some levers but it's unclear what they do. Pulling each one in the correct sequence lifts the floors up to ground level where they can be acquired if you are quick on your feet, lest you be crushed to a pile of bloody oatmeal! (The flattened entrails scabbed to the ceiling indicate the greedy survivors that didn't make it) The next area you arrive in is quite evidently the torture chambers, given the long, almost endless halls with illuminated demonic ornaments engraved in the walls. The souls of those sentenced to eternal damnation can be seen through the windows, chained to the walls struggling for breath, enduring unspeakable amounts of agony. There is a sealed door that requires a blue skullkey. The player must continue his quest for the blue skullkey searching out the corridors while fighting off the cacodemons and imps that prowl in its shadows. The player reaches the furthest corridor, Where the blue key can be seen in the far corner. The lowly imps and demons are not responsible enough to guard such a precious artifact. In order to reach it, the player must defeat the BARON OF HELL!! Once the player defeats the baron of hell, the blue skullkey is acquired and used to enter the deeper sanctums of the house of pain, in which the player is challenged with more puzzles to solve in order to progress further, until reaching the deepest confines of dungeon, the cells where the mortal sinners are contained. The cells are controlled by two pillars with skull switches on each one. The player must play around with the switches to determine what each one is capable of to solve the puzzle. Once the puzzle is solved, The hero encounters more monsters around a bend and is presented with a hallway lined with hot coals that he must sprint across to avoid being cooked into fine roast beef, consequently alerting cacodemons and more barons of his presence, who soon pursue him as he makes a dash for the exit.

Thinking of Doom as more of an adventure instead of quirky mapping really brings it to life. I'm heavily inspired to play through the IWADs once again for this reason."

[C30N9]

I have no idea how do you guys notice the unnoticeable...

Great one 40oz!

[Hellbent]

I'm going through this entire thread and pulling out anything I think could be useful as a guide in this project. Here is a snippet:

One of the reasons I suggested that maps be made with the idea of fitting between existing levels in a given episode is that I didn't want remakes of existing levels, but rather levels that would conceivably fit somewhere in the episode so that it would be impossible for someone not very familiar with Doom to pick out the non-id level... one way of thinking about it is like adding another level to the original episode so that it is now 10 levels instead of 9. You wouldn't have two similar levels in the same episode. So the idea was that you design the level to fit early in the episode, in the middle, or near the end; roughly speaking, rather than designing a level that replaces an existing level in the episode. Your level should complement the other existing levels in the episode, not pay homage to them.

40oz said a long time back: Another thing that would be awesome is if someone were willing to draw out new intermission maps to use for this whole thing. I think it would look best if someone sketched out the whole background (like a new phobos crater) using pencil and paper, then scanned and used a photo editing program to color it. I'll throw up some ideas if no one else can, and we can vote on em.

Here's a screenshot from awhile ago--not sure if this map is in the list. It's by Icytux.

[Xaser]

Hellbent: Huh, I haven't seen that map. Was it finished, and do you have a copy if so? Looks nice.

[Hellbent]

Xaser said:

Hellbent: Huh, I haven't seen that map. Was it finished, and do you have a copy if so? Looks nice.

I remember playing it and probably giving too much criticism of it(I think he gave up on the project, unfortuantely). Maybe I'll send him a PM. Here's a screenshot of the finalized layout:


I'll dig up the map and post a link to it.

EDIT: click on the image to download the map.

[MegaDoomer]

@Hellbent - Approximately how many maps for each episode do you think are already fully fit for inclusion in the final version (i.e. they succeed fully at being "the way ID did" in your view and also do not lack anything critical such as difficulty settings, etc.)?

Anyways, I have what I think is a plan to get this on the right track to a good, final release:

Firstly, I think the submissions for each episode should be put into three categories:

Category 1: Maps fully fit for the final release (they fully meet the criteria above).

Category 2: Maps not yet fit for inclusion but can be made fit for inclusion without being modified in any significantly harmful or detracting way (like, maps that need texture changes, implementation of difficulty settings, or to be expanded some, etc. - but not maps that would have to be cut significantly in size/epicness or anything of that sort).

Category 3: Maps that are very good but would have to be changed in some notably negative manner to be fit for the project. Iori's Logic Core would be an example of this, because it is an excellent map but would have to be made shorter to be appropriate for inclusion, which I would consider detrimental to the map's actual quality.

Unless the map has already been released separately, as soon as any map is moved or placed into category 3 (at any point in the process I am outlining), it should be released separately or put into a separate compilation that will at some point be released separate from the main project. The author can of course choose to do further improvements before doing a separate release though.

After a category is determined for each map, it should be checked to make sure every episode has at least nine maps in categories 1 and 2 combined. If any episode fails to have this, it should be notified that the appropriate number of additional maps (9 - the # of C1 or C2 maps) will be needed to fill each episode.

Then, the maps in category 1 should be put directly into appropriate spots in each episode. If any episode has more than nine maps in category 1, use the nine best and move the others to category 3. Then, have the best category 2 maps edited so that they can be upgraded to category 1 until each episode is full of nine maps. Move any remaining category 2 maps to category 3.

At this point the process is completed as the main game will be ready for release and the maps in category 3 that have not already been released separately at that point can be prepared for a separate release.

This plan can be done for E1 only first if felt appropriate, or for all three episode simultaneously - I don't think it really matters that much.

Feel free to make any comments or criticisms on my idea of moving forward. If you don't think it's the right way to go then feel free to go another route; I wouldn't be offended. I just thought I'd throw out to the public the best/most organized idea I could come up with.

[Hellbent]

It's not a bad idea Megadoomer. I'm not very good at managing files in general :-/ so i wouldn't want to volunteer keeping tabs on all that. It's also not always so easy to say defnitively which maps would go into category 1; but yeah, I suppose soon we will want to start making those kinds of decisions.

in other news, here is a screenie of my feebled attempt at an e1 map.

[MegaDoomer]

If you would like, I could help manage the categories.

[Marnetmar]

That looks good Hellbent! The only real problem I see is the lack of border textures, plus the soulsphere area could probably use a texture like BROWN1.

[esselfortium]

The lack of support textures, if that's what you mean, looks fine to me. They weren't always used everywhere, and this doesn't really need them to hide any weird alignments or whatever they would usually be used for. The ground-level doorways in e1m4's starting courtyard were done the same way, with no supports.

And yeah, looks good Hellbent :)

[Marnetmar]

I don't mean using them everywhere, just in the area where the tunnel meets the large room.

[40oz]

With Lorenzo's permission I started trying out some modifications to his map E1M4: Alienation Zone. I think the biggest flaws I had with it is that the texturing was a little too colorful and a lot of areas felt cramped and restricted movement, so I expanded a few areas and played around with some different textures.

Starting Room - Before


Blue Key Area - Before


These are the only areas I really worked on yet.

[Marnetmar]

That looks pretty good 40oz, you do plan on fixing those texture misalignments though...right?

[40oz]

maybe. it's not really a top priority right now though.

[Xaser]

I can't say I'm sold on either screenshot. Both rooms have been transformed from something interesting into something empty and nondescript.


@Megadoomer: I'm planning on doing something similar to that once the first round of feedback from the alpha is all done (it does seem to be winding down a bit), only with respect to the existing maps (i.e. mark which maps are good as is, which ones are close but need work, and include a pool of "runners up" similar to your Category 3).

Also, is size your only consideration for not wanting to include Logic Core? Given the original goal of the project, that's no reason to reject the map or suggest that it be cut down severely. E1M10 easily could've been a grand adventure had id wanted to make it that way.


@Hellbent: Hmm, not bad! Keep it going. ;)

[Marnetmar]

Hellbent made a point earlier though, consider if the levels would run on 1993 hardware. Could E1M7 and E3M9 run on a 386/486? While they are great levels, they probably could not.

[MegaDoomer]

Xaser said:

I can't say I'm sold on either screenshot. Both rooms have been transformed from something interesting into something empty and nondescript.


@Megadoomer: I'm planning on doing something similar to that once the first round of feedback from the alpha is all done (it does seem to be winding down a bit), only with respect to the existing maps (i.e. mark which maps are good as is, which ones are close but need work, and include a pool of "runners up" similar to your Category 3).

Also, is size your only consideration for not wanting to include Logic Core? Given the original goal of the project, that's no reason to reject the map or suggest that it be cut down severely. E1M10 easily could've been a grand adventure had id wanted to make it that way.


@Hellbent: Hmm, not bad! Keep it going. ;)

If my idea goes, initial entries to Category 3 would mostly be maps that are excellent but would serve better as PWADs separated from the DTWID mentality.

Size may be the only reason in some cases, Logic Core possibly among them. Two things that cannot be overlooked are Marnetmar's point above about being runnable on 1993 computers and also that such large maps will often yield savegame buffer overflows in vanilla, which would IMO make a map immediately inappropriate for this project, since the original ID maps NEVER even came close to having this error.

EDIT: I administered a quick test with pure vanilla (and DosBox) and none of the maps seem to yield the savegame buffer problem right away. Still, this cannot occur anywhere in the map, and the idea of what a 1993 computer can handle must be paid respect to as well. I think the average size of these maps should be quite resemblant of the original Doom I maps, it's part of how ID did things after all!