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Mr. Freeze

California's Prop 8 deemed unconstitutional

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Clonehunter said:

Overturned... Gay marriage ban... Fuck...

How the hell do other people's relationships effect you in any way?

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Aw shit now the gay people that I am aware of but not affiliated with are going to be able to live happily ever after? My life is ruined... I think.

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Bank said:

How the hell do other people's relationships effect you in any way?


Sorry. Against my religion. I don't have any real problems, its just that, well... Can't deal with them well, but mostly I just don't agree with it. Not trying to really offend anyone here.

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Clonehunter said:
Sorry. Against my religion.

That's between you and your god. It's like Catholics demanding it be illegal to eat meat of Fridays.

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I can't believe they even tried. You know, California being one of the most (if not the most) liberal state(s) in America?

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That may be true, but Prop 8 was put to popular vote and the majority voted yes for some horrible reason. Tyranny of the majority and all that.

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I say this is a great thing (I'm not gay or nothing). But god damn it if you love someone (No matter gender color race) you should be allowed to marry them. I'm glad it was overturned. I always thought it was fucked up some states wouldn't allow gays to get married. I see that it's a free country and who is the government to tell you who you can marry?

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Clonehunter said:

I don't have any real problems, its just that, well... Can't deal with them well, but mostly I just don't agree with it.

You've little to worry about until same-sex marriages are made compulsory. ;)

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Bank said:

How the hell do other people's relationships effect you in any way?

I'll probably regret posting this, but...

They don't, but it's not the relationship at issue here. Marriage is government sanctioned, and as soon as government gets involved it becomes a public issue.

The solution is to get government out of the marriage business. The only other option is a divisive, ugly, never-ending battle.

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Marriage is government sanctioned because it enables providing benefits for couples. You know, things like visitation, inheritance, guardianship, etc, etc. Those are good for people. Arguably, encouraging people into stable relationships is good for people too, and in a positive way, not just in a "do this because we need money and power" way. Just have the government call it a civil union in all cases. That could be a fun way to stir people up.

Anyway, this is awesome, but Americans always fight this kind of thing till the bitter end. We'll still be hearing about this in 2015. Meanwhile, Canada solved this in 2005. (Although Alberta considered fighting it. I hate living in redneck land sometimes.)

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Clonehunter said:

Sorry. Against my religion. I don't have any real problems, its just that, well... Can't deal with them well, but mostly I just don't agree with it. Not trying to really offend anyone here.


Religion: Where rationality takes a back seat to thousand year old hocus-pocus misinterpreted for the convenience of bigots, and where being taught tolerance and loving of all "God's" creatures on Earth is limited to an idea long forgotten by those who preach it every Sunday.

Mark Twain had it right. If Jesus were alive, he wouldn't be Christian.

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Andy Olivera said:

The solution is to get government out of the marriage business. The only other option is a divisive, ugly, never-ending battle.


No, the solution is to get all religions out of the marriage business. Let them do their silly wedding ceremonies in Church if they want to, but let that have no more legal value than a child's birthday party.

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Clonehunter said:

Sorry. Against my religion.

That's right: your religion, not theirs. I don't see why your religion should be their problem.

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Andy Olivera said:

I'll probably regret posting this, but...

They don't, but it's not the relationship at issue here. Marriage is government sanctioned, and as soon as government gets involved it becomes a public issue.

The solution is to get government out of the marriage business. The only other option is a divisive, ugly, never-ending battle.

You have been able to be married in Judge's chambers in this country for a long time, it has long been "government sanctioned." I would argue that it is indeed the relationship issue because some individuals decide that because they do not agree with homosexuality (which in my opinion is like disagreeing with air or disagreeing with men or disagreeing with anything else that just exists) that they have the right to bar the rights of others.

Everyone has an opinion but if it doesn't effect your life I don't understand what your possible objection could be. I do not believe that anyone's rights to be legally married illegitimizes anyone else's marriage.

Arguably the only reason marriage is an issue in this day and age is the monetary/legal benefit it offers to those who are married. This has long been a government issue and it will not cease to be one.

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Andy Olivera said:
The solution is to get government out of the marriage business. The only other option is a divisive, ugly, never-ending battle.

Forget it. Small government is dead. Society only gets bigger and more complex with time, requiring more, not less, levels of organization. The battle has only one outcome, as governments become internationalized and adopt some general human rights standards (including gay marriage.)

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Just saw an article about this on the TV news (though quite why an American ruling in an American state is considered newsworthy on the British national news I'm not sure*). Anyway, I saw all the people protesting with their religiously motivated banners and slogans. I'm sorry, I just can't get into the mindset where something that someone else does (and which has no impact on other people) can be such a big problem for people utterly unrelated to them. LOL religious bigots.


*Unless it is just for the lulz at the expense of those "crazy Americans" in the way that the media here likes to do. ie "Heh, look, crazy backwards American bible bashers are demonstrating against modern thinking again. LOL USA."

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Damn it. Gay marriage is gonna destroy marriage for us straight people. Also, my invisible skydaddy doesn't approve.

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Enjay said:

*Unless it is just for the lulz at the expense of those "crazy Americans" in the way that the media here likes to do. ie "Heh, look, crazy backwards American bible bashers are demonstrating against modern thinking again. LOL USA."


That's pretty common in norwegian media as well. The other day they did a report on a school where they didn't teach sex ed, but abstinence only. Their teaching material also claimed that intimate touching could lead to pregnancy. Whether they report stuff like this in a spiteful manner or not, it's still pretty interesting. :p

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Bank said:

You have been able to be married in Judge's chambers in this country for a long time, it has long been "government sanctioned." I would argue that it is indeed the relationship issue because some individuals decide that because they do not agree with homosexuality (which in my opinion is like disagreeing with air or disagreeing with men or disagreeing with anything else that just exists) that they have the right to bar the rights of others.

I'm not arguing that people don't oppose it because of the 'relationship issue', I'm saying that, as long as government is involved, they have standing to do so. Remove government from the equation and it becomes a private matter again.

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