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Deeforce

You can play Nuts fluently now with a high working PC!

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Hasn't it been like that for a while now? The first time that I played Nuts I didn't experience any lag.

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My shitty PC runs Nuts 3 smoothly, which has an even higher monster count. The key is to use GlBoom+ (which has a fantastically efficient renderer, thank you Andrey) and to make sure that "monsters help friends" is turned off, as that feature requires expensive AI calculations.

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Well, I have lags if I use ZDoom. There must be something in the game behaviour that is handled differently between ZDoom and PrBoom-Plus.

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Bah, it ran smoothly in glboom-plus six years ago, on even older hardware.

K!r4 said:

Well, I have lags if I use ZDoom. There must be something in the game behaviour that is handled differently between ZDoom and PrBoom-Plus.

One thing that works differently (as Creaphis mentioned) is that the monster AI that grinds play to a near-halt can be turned off. -complevel 2 is simplest, though anything below 11 (MBF) is also fine, while above level that you can disable the individual settings.

It might be faster in any case, as Andrey has done a lot to increase the speed, but it is hard to compare like with like since the AI and other algorithms are so different.

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I guess that ZDoom is more complex than most source ports, that it's slower as well.

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Grazza said:

Bah, it ran smoothly in glboom-plus six years ago, on even older hardware.
One thing that works differently (as Creaphis mentioned) is that the monster AI that grinds play to a near-halt can be turned off. -complevel 2 is simplest, though anything below 11 (MBF) is also fine, while above level that you can disable the individual settings

The reason of slowdowns was a bug in PrBoom and that was a reason of old incompatibility you found on artica4.wad (and map30)

Revision: 3459
Author: entryway
Date: 1:20:20, 15 квітня 2010 р.
Message:
Fixed the latest known incompatibility (MBF)

PrBoom does not freeze with "help_monsters 1" as a bonus.
----
Modified : /branches/prboom-plus-24/prboom2/src/p_inter.c

  if (compatibility_level == mbf_compatibility && 
      !prboom_comp[PC_MBF_REMOVE_THINKER_IN_KILLMOBJ].state)
  {
    // killough 8/29/98: remove from threaded list
    P_UpdateThinker(&target->thinker);
  }
So it should be fine now with MBF compatibility (still slower a little than without AI at all of course). For PrBoom's complevels it's still slow, because of compatibility purposes and can be fixed only after introducing of new level of compatibility.

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printz said:

I guess that ZDoom is more complex than most source ports, that it's slower as well.

As long as the monsters aren't woken up, it's reasonably fast. Then when you wake up, it freezes for a while, and when it resumes you discover you have traded FPS for SPF. :p Until you kill all the monsters with a console command, and then it's fast again.

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Gez said:

As long as the monsters aren't woken up, it's reasonably fast. Then when you wake up, it freezes for a while, and when it resumes you discover you have traded FPS for SPF. :p Until you kill all the monsters with a console command, and then it's fast again.

Or vice-versa :) Try longdays.wad with gzdoom 1.2.01, for example. It will be slow as hell when all monsters are sleeping (1-2 fps) and quite playable after waking up all of them :)

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Gez said:

As long as the monsters aren't woken up, it's reasonably fast. Then when you wake up, it freezes for a while, and when it resumes you discover you have traded FPS for SPF. :p Until you kill all the monsters with a console command, and then it's fast again.

Now don't get me wrong. I think I could play NUTS-scaled level even with the Doom 3 engine perfectly fluently. It's a problem just with my secondary computer, which can't run much Doom 3, grr.

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entryway said:

The reason of slowdowns was a bug in PrBoom and that was a reason of old incompatibility you found on artica4.wad (and map30)

Which I shall publicly note was determined by me during the period of time I was working on fixing 2.02 demo sync in EE by comparing our codebases ;)

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Quasar said:

Which I shall publicly note was determined by me during the period of time I was working on fixing 2.02 demo sync in EE by comparing our codebases ;)


Yes, but only after one hour of cross-debugging of Eternity and PrBoom-Plus and logging everything by me :) You just pointed the place with incompatibility immediately after I told you: "Quasar, PrBoom-Plus still executes thinkers for all dead bodies with "help_friends 1", lol. Eternity does not do it."

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When I start nuts3 and face the building, my FPS is ~90. Then I kill all monsters with "tntem" cheat and FPS drops to 60 (both measured with "idrate" cheat, vsync is off). Starnge.

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tempun said:

When I start nuts3 and face the building, my FPS is ~90. Then I kill all monsters with "tntem" cheat and FPS drops to 60 (both measured with "idrate" cheat, vsync is off). Starnge.

I have 99 and 93. Only because there are much more sprites after TNTEM (dropped weapons and clips). 6303 sprites with alive monsters and 8231 after TNTEM.

Also, you can probably increase FPS a little in 2.5.0.7.beta with "sprites_doom_order 0" instead of default 1. "sprites_doom_order 2" should be slowest.

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