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pattoni

DOOM Pallete Limitations

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Well, i´ve been working on my stuff this week and started to modify the graphics now, but i'm dealing with some problems because of the Doom limited pallete.

I'm aware that i must use 8-bit, windows bmp images. If i open any original Doom sprite on Photoshop (example: TROOA3A7), i see it appears in indexed mode. I've done it with MY sprites, but when i'd loaded it in wintex, the colours didn't fit good. It seems obvius that some colours are not supported, but I just can not figure out which of them. Anyway, what is the commom way to solve this problem? Which colours are supported?

Thanks for your support, amigos.

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.. some problems because of the Doom limited pallete.

There are a few unused or duplicated colors in the DOOM palette. White appears 4 times, Black 2 times, index 247 (black) and 251 aren't used by anything either. I've never checked if the white duplicates are used.

It's also possible to tinker a bit with the basic hues to make better fits. You'd have to experiment and see. Sometimes minor shifts can help a lot. DeePsea, XWE and Inkworks let you modify the DOOM palette colors. It's a fun thing to do. Some people have just made a basic hue range shift resulting in pretty cool results.

Now the other issue is that Wintex makes mistakes mapping colors into the DOOM palette. IOW, sometimes colors don't remap correctly because of the method used.

One way to avoid that is to use your graphics program to do the remapping (PSP is real easy). DeePsea essentially converts like PSP, so you could use that to import/convert your graphics to the DOOM format. If you mess with the palette, be sure to tell your import program what color is to be used for transparency. You need to have a color that isn't used in your graphics.

After all that, it can still be difficult to get good color mapping in some situations.

All you need to do to get the DOOM palette is to either take a game screenshot or just export any graphic from the DOOM IWAD. They'll automatically contain the palette you need. PSP users just create a PALETTE (PAL) entry from this image and use that to remap future images.

XWE and Inkworks are here at DOOMWORLD utilities. DeePsea current version 11.55+ is at www.sbsoftware.com

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If you're going to create a modified DOOM palette, here's what I recommend:

- Lower blue's saturation, tilt hue towards cyan
- Change the pink (magenta) to violet
- Decrease the saturation of some of the oranges
- Switch the white to red spectrum for a yellow to red one

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Well, i'm not sure if i'm going tom change the pallete, only if it's really a necessity.

I've just installed Deep Sea and I've some doubts. First of all, just like deep said, i assume there's a sprite editor in it. Can I use it now or it's need to register the software? If so, where is it?

Thanks or your help... :-)

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I've just figured out the GRAPHIC EDITOR in Deep Sea, but just like Wintex, it didn't convert my sprite the way i want it, even if i check the 'auto convert BMP'. I think i will need to download the 35MB PSP file!!!!

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If you show a frame of your sprite, I could help you with how to retouch it so it looks good in DOOM's palette.

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ok fredrik, i've sent you an email with the sprite.

-

where does zaldron live?

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people get banned here???

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I tried importing the DOOM palette directly in PSP, and I don't think it looks bad... with just a little adjusting of the hues, you could probably get it exactly like you want, because there are colors close enough in the palette.

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people get banned here???

Nothing you should have to worry about if you keep acting the way you've done so far and don't start spamming or flaming :P

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I've just figured out the GRAPHIC EDITOR in Deep Sea, but just like Wintex, it didn't convert my sprite the way i want it, even if i check the 'auto convert BMP'.

It's suggested to use the F7/Import tool for what you are doing. The Graphic Editor tool is more for quickly messing directly with the graphics as a paint program would.

You can also see how it's going to translate by using the BMP browser - Edit menu. IOW, you can get a preview of how it would look.

What you do is look for colors that mismatch and then either adjust those, as Fredrik pointed out, or edit the PLAYPAL (which is pretty easy to do).

Sometimes in PSP (and others), it's better if you start with a higher color depth. That way you can fine tune much easier BEFORE converting to the DOOM 256 color palette. There are also alternative methods to reduce color in PSP that can give good results - especially dither.

Btw, DeePsea and XWE directly convert higher color depth to 8-bit.

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Request - how about a function in Deepsea to convert a PSP .pal file to playpal/colormap? That would kick ass...

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Request - how about a function in Deepsea to convert a PSP .pal file to playpal/colormap? That would kick ass...

Might be more universal to just use a -256- color BMP palette entry instead so it's not only for PSP users. Not sure that has much universal appeal. It would take a LOT of work and understanding to make all the default graphics look good. If anyone else cares, post here or email me.

Colormaps are a different problem. I'd have to get in the mood to think about all the issues. Off the top of my head, seem like I'd have to match the old colormap (stock DOOM palette) to the new in an attempt to get similar mapping. Seems then that one is left with somewhat the same problem we started with - matching colors accurately? That's just a quick look, maybe it's not a big deal. Good examples always help:)

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Request - how about a function in Deepsea to convert a PSP .pal file to playpal/colormap? That would kick ass...

Might be more universal to just use a -256- color BMP palette entry instead so it's not only for PSP users. Not sure that has much universal appeal. It would take a LOT of work and understanding to make all the default graphics look good. If anyone else cares, post here or email me.

Colormaps are a different problem. I'd have to get in the mood to think about all the issues. Off the top of my head, seem like I'd have to match the old colormap (stock DOOM palette) to the new in an attempt to get similar mapping. Seems then that one is left with somewhat the same problem we started with - matching colors accurately? That's just a quick look, maybe it's not a big deal. Good examples always help:)

What I'd rather see is a function that takes the palette out of a 256-color bitmap and produces the appropriate PLAYPAL and COLORMAP lumps from it.

Since the COLORMAP lump doesn't contain any actual color data (it's a remap table that takes a palette index and gives a new palette index), there's no color-matching problem. The problem is more in generating the PLAYPAL lump and handling the correct color shifts that come up in it (pain/berserk, bonus, radsuit).

So how I see it working is as follows:

You have a dialog box, requesting a bitmap to generate the palette from, three blend colors (one for pain/berserk, one for bonuses, and one for the radsuit), and blend percentages (I think it's four for the pain/berserk and three for the bonuses, but I'm not sure here).

Extract the palette from the bitmap, write it as the first palette in PLAYPAL, then blend the palette with the appropriate colors in the appropriate amounts to generate each successive palette.

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What I'd rather see is a function that takes the palette out of a 256-color bitmap and produces the appropriate PLAYPAL and COLORMAP lumps from it.

Right, that's what I suggested too.

The COLORMAP does have to "color match" if you want it to map to DOOM graphics. If it doesn't map to the DOOM palette then you'd have to replace ALL the DOOM graphics. My 1st impressions is that is not practical for the majority of users.

If you want to ignore the DOOM values, then DeePsea could do it just like it matches colormaps to a shifted palette now. Just set it to the look you want and have it match what you made:)

However, ports like ZDOOM, don't use the "pain/beserk/etc" Pals. Haven't checked other advanced non-DOS ports, could be the same? Also, ZDOOM only used the "distance" colormaps and ignores the rest. Those also have to be matched though.

I'm going to assume in the following that one has to match the original Palette as best as can be done. Then one could manually tinker all they want. It's not an easy job:)

Color matching for "pain/beserk" to the original would get the values from the DOOM/mapped palette (as you pointed out, all the remapped colors point back to the PLAYPAL) and then remap them back to the "new" palette. So that's what I meant by COLORMAP color matching problems. That process makes life much simpler for the average user.

For a real live working example of how this works, just make a DOOM grayscale palette and/or COLORMAP using DeePsea and watch how the colormaps remap using exactly the technique I just described.

It's trivial to generate the main PLAYPAL - not sure about the subsequent values nor the colormaps. Like I said, if there's interest I'll do it with the understanding that there will be color shifts via the COLORMAP just like before:)

Again, just off the top of my head. I'd have to get "into" the details again and see what pops out. Might be more useful than I thought (which happens quite a bit<g>).

Thanks for the comments.

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OK, palette from 256 color BMPS can be used to replace any of the PLAYPAL entries. This is an experiment to see how useful this is. So one can use PSP (or any pgm) to alter the DOOM palettes in PLAYPAL and then stuff it back.

I'll look at the color mapping later. I need to get the current version (11.57) posted. Texture scaling for Hi Res images is pretty damn interesting.

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Since getting the request for PLAYPAL/COLORMAP palette support and some feedback, I tinkered some more with the PLAYPAL and COLORMAP tool. I think I've covered all the different ways one might want the PLAYPAL and COLORMAP entries changed.

The problems are like I described in the above posts. Since people asked for being able to make life easier in this area, I put in some automatic PALETTE and COLORMAP conversions choices. So you can go from being in 100% control to letting DeePsea make approximations matching the original DOOM palette.

There also an analysis of how well your new palette matches the original DOOM palette. Might make the palette analysis tool available as a choice for later checking too.

If one replaces all the textures/sprites/flats in a level using a new palette, then a perfect match is guaranteed. For those not so ambitious, it makes it pretty easy to have some fun anyway:)

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