almost six months on.

[pritch]

After noticing forum favourite had changed I went and read Mordeth's initial reaction thread, well some of it anyway. It really made me think. People were writing stuff there which I would not associate with the personality profile I have of them from my time on the forums.

It also made me realise it is nearly six months since Sept. 11th, and as such I made this post to ask you what you've learnt, how you would evaluate your initial reactions, do you regret any initial emotions you had, and have you lost any of them with time? I'm making this thread because I think it is important to go back over things and everyone is entitled to review their opinions. I also think that this forum has suffered in the last few days through no fault of the vast majority of it's members, and that Ling in particular deserves better, as it's him who has to sort things out. OK, these things happen, let's be sensible and serious in this one now please.

I still find myself drifting off and thinking about the whole thing. I go through the whole set, you know? I start by thinking about when I stood on top of that tower last year, having always wanted to since childhood. I remember faces of people who worked there, all part of the fantastic holiday I had in NY. When I think that some of those people may be dead a chill creeps over me. Then I think about the people on those planes, and imagining what I would do if I knew I was going to die. Then the aftermath, the bombings, asking myself if it was the right policy, questioning peoples motives, their sincerity. Then I think how little people talk about it now, or how they pay lip-service to it, and I wonder, do we live in a society now where nothing shocks us over a period of time anymore? Are we victims of over-stimulation, with games such as Doom offering so immersive escapism since th early 90s?

They said nothing would be the same again, but it is. In my opinion, what we have done is repressed the true imapct on a mass-human scale. We haven't dealt with the true problems that face our planet because, simply, it is easier not to, and we like to think that it's all going to sort itself out and be fine.

Don't get me wrong, I think destroying Al-Quaeda was the right thing to do, but we need to do so much more. September 11th was as much about where the 6 billion of us on this planet are going, and what we are going to do about it, as it was about an extremist madman.

So this is what it means to me. Not just looking back at my initial emotions, reactions, actions etc. but looking at what it has shown me, what I've learned about the world we share, and where we go on.

And reading back I've just discovered another reason why I'm making this thread, and, in fitting irony, it is a very selfish one.

I hope you appreciate this.

pritch.

[Lüt]

They said nothing would be the same again, but it is.

Oh, they always say that. They're the types who spend half the news getting emotional about the latest celebrity relations and breakups, of course something on ANY kind of scale is gonna get them riled.

I knew from the start (with Littleton Colorado as reference) that I'd probably have to wait at least a few months before being able to talk sensibly about people with this. Some people here actually surprised me though.

[Fredrik]

From an external point of view, I think the US propaganda has been almost sickening. I don't mean you are wrong about being patriots or fighting for your "freedom" (mild sarcasm, ignore that), but I've had problems taking the whole thing the right way after getting SPAMMED with kill-a-taliban, these-colors-don't-run, etc every three sites I visit on the Internet. No, don't get me wrong, I am not anti-US and you shouldn't blame me for being anti-wipe-the-terrorists-out based on what I wrote above.

But what I find odd is that the people of the US have managed to form just as much hate against the Taliban as the Taliban against the US. This something worth to discuss, and just not wipe away with "legitimate revenge" as an excuse.

I know I'll get flamed for this...

[Lüt]

I know I'll get flamed for this...

Nah, you've got it right. Nobody knows how to control themselves when stuff like this happens, mainly because they can't put it in perspective.

Hell, have you seen how pissed off people get over sports tournaments? At least the WTC incident didn't cause as much of an uproar as, say, International Finals or whatever it's called for various sports. But still, the reaction was highly uncontrolled.



edit:

We need another tterrorist attack to stir things up. Here are some potential targets:

Could you possibly be any dumber?!?

[pritch]

I hope he had the sense to delete that message, and you didn't have to do it.

[Submerge]

From an external point of view, I think the US propaganda has been almost sickening. I don't mean you are wrong about being patriots or fighting for your "freedom" (mild sarcasm, ignore that), but I've had problems taking the whole thing the right way after getting SPAMMED with kill-a-taliban, these-colors-don't-run, etc every three sites I visit on the Internet. No, don't get me wrong, I am not anti-US and you shouldn't blame me for being anti-wipe-the-terrorists-out based on what I wrote above.

But what I find odd is that the people of the US have managed to form just as much hate against the Taliban as the Taliban against the US. This something worth to discuss, and just not wipe away with "legitimate revenge" as an excuse.

I know I'll get flamed for this...

No, you are correct Fred. I am an American, and I am getting tired of the floods of propaganda that I see daily. If you cut it in half, it would still be everywhere, but accptable. I think that showing that we won't stand for this and acting on it was the right choice. Hell, it's what I would have done. But we don't need all of this propaganda. I don't truly HATE the taliban, but I see them as SEVERELY misguided, and they made an incredible mistake in trying to fuck with us, and they are getting what the earned through their heinous actions.

[fodders]

Actually it wasn't the Taliban, Al-Qaeda are the guilty party, Taliban are paying the price of giving succour to them, a high price but one they must pay.

[Fredrik]

Actually it wasn't the Taliban, Al-Qaeda are the guilty party, Taliban are paying the price of giving succour to them, a high price but one they must pay.

I don't catch everything on the news... sorry :)

[fodders]

Your post was valid, it's submerge's that was incorrect :)

[Fredrik]

Ah, OK, thanks for educating me anyway.

[pilottobombadier]

Who knows, who cares. Somebody pulled a fast one on the people, that much I know. Those buldings were destroyed by something other than planes and anyone who understands physics knows that. Anyway, fuck it, just let it run its course, cuz unless you got a militia behind you and some heavy weapons, there ain't a damn thing you can do to change all of this. The reality is...We don't know, we still THINK we know...but we really don't know...anything.

[dsm]

[...]Then I think how little people talk about it now, or how they pay lip-service to it, and I wonder, do we live in a society now where nothing shocks us over a period of time anymore?[...]

The reason(s) I don't put so much thought in the WTC terrorist attack now: People die untimely deaths under horrible conditions all over the world - and most of these people are INNOCENT!
What pisses me off the most right now, is the Israeli-Palestinean conflict. Another completely retarded war fought over something as low-down ridiculous as LAND. I just can't respect neither side in that conflict, because each claim to be the innocent part and each claim that the other side is TEH EVIL!!!

The WTC "incident" did have a schocking effect on me. I think it's because basically the center of the World's trade in the most powerful superstate in the World got demolished. And I think I could easierly relate to it, because we Europeans have adopted a lot of American culture.
But the catastrophe also reminded me of all the pain and suffering, which happens every day in other parts of the World.
Admitted, my first reaction when I saw those happy Palestineans was to basically go berserk. But when I finally calmed down, it dawned on me that there are people in Palestinia (sp?) who are sensible and innocent people and that they are suffering and dieing.

I had trouble falling asleep that night, because I couldn't help thinking of all the evil in the World.

[læmænt]

What pisses me off the most right now, is the Israeli-Palestinean conflict. Another completely retarded war fought over something as low-down ridiculous as LAND.

Land is not quite that ridiculous actually - they need to live somewhere, don't they?

[dsm]

It's not about those who live on the spot, it's about those who want to TAKE the land.

[læmænt]

in my opinion, both the jews and the palestinians have right to live there. So yeah, it's a tough problem.

[fodders]

Those buldings were destroyed by something other than planes and anyone who understands physics knows that.

What total utter crock

[fraggle]

Those buldings were destroyed by something other than planes and anyone who understands physics knows that.

What total utter crock

The buildings didnt fall over when the planes hit them, they fell down an hour later when the fires burned through the supports that held them up. Of course, those fires started from the planes, but he's still right to an extent.

[fodders]

Usama clearly stated in a later video, talking to some Muslim clerics that he knew the effect the planes full of fuel would have on the metal supports, he just thought that the floors above the point of impact would drop/implode. He is a very qualified engineer after all.

[pritch]

Bin Laden is a total dickhaed, and so am I. There, I have something in common with the world's most vile man

[fodders]

His knob is larger tho :)

[dsm]

Bin Laden is a total dickhaed, and so am I. There, I have something in common with the world's most vile man

I doubt that you are responsible for thousands of innocent people's death.

[nxn]

no one's perfect

[pritch]

His knob is larger tho :)

ROFL. Thank god for fodders. Fod did you see the thing on smallpox on two this evening? Scary shit...

[Sharessa]

WTF is wrong with Pritch, man?

But anyway, for years, I never did the flag salute at the beginning of class, but then there was the September 11th thing. I stood for the flag for about 3 days out of respect, but after that it was back to my original routine. The country still sucks, and continues to prove it by acting like a big deadly baby.

And Bush is no help with all his crap about North Korea and all...jackass.

[pritch]

WTF is wrong with Pritch...

what isn't. :(

Read my thread, should throw light on it

[fodders]

Fod did you see the thing on smallpox on two this evening? Scary shit...

Yeh was very well done, almost like the "war of the worlds" radio scare years ago, if anyone switched tv on as sky news reporters were telling people how many thousands had died in New York from smallpox, they woulda shit themselves :(

[dsm]

Read my thread, should throw light on it

Oh come ON! This happens to a lot of other guys y'know. They commit such mistakes, because they aren't strong enough to control their feelings. It's not because you are evil..., just not mentally strong eneough. But you might have learned that now.
Come on pritch, be a good boy and try and undo the damage, I know you can.

[pritch]

thanks dsm.

Fodders and I (for the benefit of those of you not in the UK) are talking about a drama program which was made in the style of a proper documentary set in 2004 two years after a terrorist unleashes smallpox on New York city. It spreads around the world, killing 60 million people, especially in the third world. The figures are based on real hypothesis and this is FAR from an impossible occurence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/smallpox2002