Building a map around a demo (TAS reversed)

[vdgg]

It was a difficult exercise to perform, so if something similar has been done, please tell me. I conceived the idea a long time ago, only recently myk reminded me of something similarly extravagant: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-speed-demos/39294-another-crazy-idea-same-demo-exits-e1m1-and-map01/ so I decided to make a map(!)

This is how it works:
A TAS demo means you have a map and you "make" a demo that works in this map (cheats, lmp manipulation, etc, right now I don't discern built demos from other TAS types). Now, let's think if it can be done the other way round: you have a demo - in my example it is lv01-039, an UV Max Compet-N record for MAP01: Entryway, by Xit Vono, and you must build a map in which this demo can be played back correctly :)))

Basic principles:
The new map should make sense in single player mode
Demo from another WAD (doom2.wad, in this case) plays back correctly and makes sense too.

My criteria for a good map:
1. Placing invulnerabilities not allowed (too easy)
2. Bonus points if there are no teleporters (they make the task easier)
3. If possible, weapons used should be different than in the original demo (entertainment factor)
4. Mega bonus points if many monsters can move freely and are not deaf-flagged (entertainment factor + higher difficulty)
5. Demo should be "nice" when played back with a new map
- No missed shots
- No clueless walking
- Should be difficult to reproduce
- Bonus points if the time is the same as the original; generally speaking,
the demo played back with a new map should end showing the tally screen

My first successful attempt, the map probably "makes sense", but it has not great gameplay, unfortunately (sort of a bizarre map). I recommend downloading lv01-039 and watching the demo once you discover this map sucks.

Moderators, please move this thread if this is an inappropriate forum branch. I wasn't sure whether "WADs and Mods" or "Doom Speed Demos" would be better.

Also, the main purpose of this map was a good excuse to leave some misaligned textures and spend little time on general quality control. Nevertheless, if you think the design sucks really badly, please let me know...

Download links (2 possibilities)
http://www.mediafire.com/?h1ouoe5jk7n4j1l
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/23928589/demwad01.zip

If you don't have Xit Vono's demo, here's a link: http://doomedsda.us/lmps/945/1/lv01-039.zip

[dew]

this idea is entirely ridiculous. i really look forward to the outcome!

[General Rainbow Bacon]

This sounds like an almost impossible task...

therefore, I'm in.

[Phml]

That's hilarious. Somehow, watching the demo in your map and in map01, your map seemed longer and harder.

[Creaphis]

This is hilarious. I love it.

I should record a max for your map and see if it beats MAP01.

[vdgg]

I'm glad you like it. Now, to address what some of you said...

DoomHero85 said:
This sounds like an almost impossible task...

There's a huge (infinite?) number of potential maps which meet my criteria.

therefore, I'm in.

I don't want to discourage anyone but bear in mind that I threw away two maps...
The first map had a lovely beginning: a fight agaist roaming spectres, a revenant and some fixed hitscanners, all with RL of course. After 10-11 seconds I could not make anything of this map. Placing ANY new item on the map caused bad out of sync problems. Lesson learnt: place all the necessary monsters and items first in some enclosed areas.

The second map started badly and between 20-25 seconds there was a ridiculous switch pressing and shooting sequence, so I decided to abandon it.

This map also caused some problems. Sector 80 is a teleporter. I wanted some normal rooms there. No matter how tiny the sectors I placed to the south of the map were, desynch! So I created that startan room which clashes badly agaist red rock theme.

Creaphis said:
I should record a max for your map and see if it beats MAP01.

Well, I'd love to see it! I have big trouble with the jump to the switch, but I know it shouldn't be a problem for you. Unfortunately, the linedef 413 is a bit late (crusher), so if you finish the last part too fast, there won't be 100% kills. Sorry for that.

Edit: @40oz: use any demo you like. I wouldn't recommend anything longer than a minute, though ;)

[40oz]

Whoa! This looks extremely tedious. I'm really impressed with what you've done though! I think I might give this a whack. Do we have to use the demo you put up?

EDIT: after trying at this, I tried multiple ways of getting started on creating a decent map for this. I found the best approach is to create a GIANT sector and place the player start right in the center. Immediately after that, attempt to line up items such as armor bonuses to trace where the player is going to move. I haven't gotten very far beyond that, but I expect the next step to be to place monsters where the player is going to shoot, but first place them in a fashion so that they are stuck to something so they don't move, after that's done, attempt to move the monsters to a place where you can anticipate where they will see the player from and where they will move.

This is really hard but I think I'm getting close to creating a cool map with it. Height variation is a must for better entertainment value.

[kristus]

Impressive.

[Grazza]

BTW, if anyone is wondering which demo it was that accidentally played back on two different maps, and thus was the origin for this idea, I gave details in this post.

As an aside, I noticed one really weird thing when doing this. If you play back hqr-4339 without loading hr.wad (i.e. so it starts playing in Doom2.wad and thus completely the wrong map), then the player actually exits map01 of Doom2. This happens about 6 minutes in. I wonder what the odds are against that, even considering that it is a small and simple map.

Of course, there hasn't been extensive testing for this type of occurrence.

[Gez]

A possibility to "easily" build demos that work in several maps would be create a little program to send your input to two different instances of another program, making them believe they both have focus. Then you could play (with windowed mode) in two DOSBoxed Dooms/Chocolate/PrBoom+ sessions at the same time, giving the exact same commands to both, so a demo recorded on one would be identical to a demo recorded on the other.

[Use]

Some crazy shit right there.

[Hitherto]

Awesome!

[vdgg]

I really like the idea by 40oz of marking the player's path with armor bonuses. I hope you succeed, man. May I ask you what demo you chose?

Some thoughts about demo categories. By making my map, I did a transposition UV Max -> UV Max

Other possibilities:
UV Speed -> UV Max - if the original map involves lots of shooting
UV Speed -> UV Speed (or NM Speed -> NM Speed) - it looks very easy (I didn't try it, so it's speculation), but then it gives more freedom and the new map should be actually playable
UV -fast -> UV -fast - should be easier than Max as the monsters are more predictable. Even some arch-viles may appear
Respawn -> Respawn - this sounds like an impossible task for me.

[40oz]

I used the same demo you put up. I pretty much gave up halfway through. It became waaaay too tedious.