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40oz

Coop settings

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I need input.

I want to create maps that are good for single player, but aren't a pain in the ass to play on coop. I could use some suggestions.

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Yeaaaah, I was cooping for the first time with a friend a few days ago, noticed we were running pretty low on ammo sometimes so I turned on item respawn. I think this happened mostly on alien vendetta, but ran into it at points with uacultra. Of course my friend had never played doom before (but many other fpses) so we were going through ammo pretty fast. Another thing is the length of the map - we often died (gets a bit squishy sometimes with just 2 players, heh) and sometimes had to run a long way to get back to where one of us was holding off the demons. Beyond merely making the map interconnected in such a way that nothing is more than 30 seconds away from the start, possibly add 2nd player-voodoo-activated or script-opened teleporters to the farther ends of the map.

Health balance isn't so much a problem since likely the players will have respawn on, and if they don't they're willing to keep trying to beat the map with limited lives, so you might as well just balance it for yourself using -solo-net or try to balance it with a tester's help. Monster pop should obviously be higher to compensate for multiple players, but don't put more than 2, maybe 3 can handle at once. Unless the wad is specifically for coop, where you can flood them with hordes meant for 4+ like stronghold supposedly does. Which makes me want to play that coop even more >.< And I kinda want to try my hand at making a map specifically for 4+ player coop now. heh.

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Yeah more ammo and more monsters is usually the way to go. I'm surprised you ran into low ammo points in UAC Ultra, we put a lot extra shell boxes in each map so you would almost always have shotgun shells at all times. I suppose if one player runs and snatches them all up that doesn't leave much for other players. Maybe the way to go is stow coop ammo away in separate rooms near the starting area so they aren't picked up by accident when they aren't needed.

Other things I keep in mind are making sure there are weapons placed on the map instead of relying on zombies to drop them. When a player runs up and picks them all up that doesn't leave any for the other players. This is most likely because they are laid out in the general play area.

Making sure key doors stay open is important, gotta watch out for that.

One thing I recall that bothered me a lot in coop is doorway fights. When someone opens a door, revealing a room with a ton of monsters in it, one player kinda occupies the doorway and fends off the monsters, while the others can't really do anything without blocking the player's movement or shooting him into more monsters. I guess to counter this, you'd need multiple entrances and wide open (more than 128 units) doors. Alternatively, you could make it so the monsters don't see the players until they are fully submerged in the room.

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We didn't really have a problem with ammo until about map 5 or 6, we were just playing straight through so often one of us would get to the end of the map before stocking up again and then start the next map with nearly no ammo. Like you said, I think he was just picking up all the ammo, heh.

Unless you make the map specifically for coop, it's better to keep it obvious that only one player is going to be able to hold a door - maybe keep the initial monsters in a room about the same as single player, but add more that wake up or warp in for coop. Then the players have some room to move around in while requiring both to shoot at things.

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Here are a couple of ideas:

1) If you used the keys purely for co-op you could start each extra player with his own key. Then each player could have there own ammo stores as they progress through the map.
This would probably make the single player game a bit weird though.

2) Instead of keys you could have walkover lines at the start that open up otherwise hidden areas with ammo throughout the map.
Players would have to share ammo as per usual but would have more.
The textures in the areas could indicate which player the ammo is for.
Areas could also open up for extra monsters.
One problem with the monsters though is you would need some way to kill any that were blocked when you have less players.
Perhaps a crusher activated near the end of the map or something.

You would need to make the start area in each case an area that each player can only exit after activating the line / picking up the key.

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Cool ideas 4mer, but in coop keys remain in their places, so if you put all 3 in the starting area, each player will be able to collect one of each. If a player dies and respawns, he/she loses all their keys, which is why Ajapted suggested key doors always staying open. This way players don't need to run to the other end of the map t grab a key, then all the way back to open the door and continue where they left off.

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I was thinking each player would have their own start area. It would have to be constructed in such a way so that the player can only leave their area i.e. small room with one way teleporter or start on a ledge and drop down into the map. The 3 coop players could start standing on a key (indigo = blue key, red = red key...). The keys only used to access extra ammo.
But if a player doesn't start in the start area when they respawn it looks like the key idea probably won't work.
You could place a key in each ammo store so once a player has reached it it the door stays open like you said and he can get the key again (but once that happens any player could then grab that key).

The other idea is similar but instead of getting a key at the start each player has a line that only they can activate. This would open up ammo stores and perhaps extra routes for each coop player. This would be interesting because the map layout could also change depending on the number of players. The only problem I can see with this is making sure all unused monsters (in games with less than 4 players) are killed at the end but it should be possible.

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