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RDMonkey

Doom 264 (codename): Doom 64 conversion

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before i begin please note i'm not trying to steal anything from anyone (Doom 64 TC, Doom 64EX, CDoom 64), I simply am trying to make the most original conversion into Doom 2 as possible.

Anywho, This mega-wad is the subject of Doom 64 (obviously), but rather than using a different source port, or adding a bunch of unneeded shit, i decided to convert it with as much originality as possible into the Doom 2 engine/wad. That means minimal new stuff like weapons, monsters, levels, etc. Once Doom 64 Conversion is complete, i dont give a flying rat's ass if anyone mods it or not. But for the sake of originality, nothing will be added unless its necessary until its finished.

To Do:
------
-Sprite Recoloring
-Textures
-Monster/Weapon Behavior
-Maps +Scripts (or macros or whatever the hell D64 uses)
-Ending Cutscene
-Fonts
------

Thats pretty much all. Also, i am hiring, so if you are interested PM me, or shoot me a message on XFire (reddeadmonkey). Thanks for reading!

P.S. I have screen shots if needed.

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No offence but - why? We already have several options for playing DOOM64 on the PC, including 'merged into DOOM'.

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Like I said, i really just want to keep everything about doom 64, and put it into Doom 2 for the following:

-Easier Access
-Easier Modding
-To Keep Originality

You are right though. Even though there are many ways to play on the PC in general, there are minimal ways to do so on Skulltag or ZDoom. Yes, there is cdoom64, but again, originality. Also it didnt have EVERYTHING from D64. This will have all the levels, music and sounds, sprites, textures, everything. Besides I/We are doing the work soo you dont have to :D

EDIT: "there are minimal ways to do so on Skulltag or ZDoom" Okay, its for doom 2 in GENERAL. I just mentioned Skulltag and ZDoom because they are two source ports that support Doom 2. I know there are plenty of other source ports

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Why does everything need to have a needlessly-stripped-down version of it running in Skulltag/ZDoom, though?

I can't be the only one disappointed in the bizarre lack of community interest in mapping and modding for Doom64 EX. With all the love Doom64 seems to get, I'd think people would be all over that.

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esselfortium said:

Why does everything need to have a needlessly-stripped-down version of it running in Skulltag/ZDoom, though?

I can't be the only one disappointed in the bizarre lack of community interest in mapping and modding for Doom64 EX. With all the love Doom64 seems to get, I'd think people would be all over that.

Agreed. Thats one reason that this mod is being made. So its easier to make maps and mods for Doom 2/ZDoom.

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RDMonkey said:

Agreed. Thats one reason that this mod is being made. So its easier to make maps and mods for Doom 2/ZDoom.

Wait, what? Please reread my post. I think you somehow extracted the exact opposite meaning out of what I actually said.

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I think you miss the point essel and I are making. There is no need for such a project; if a mod author was interested they'd be working with Doom64 EX already, not Skulltag/ZDoom/whatever. What makes you think otherwise?

The only logical explanation I can come to is that what you really want is Skulltag-like multiplayer in DOOM64.

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AFAIK D64EX isn't limit-removing (correct me if I'm wrong), and the idea of having D64 mods using ZDoom features is great.

Problem is though, (G)ZDoom and Skulltag already have this.

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scalliano said:

AFAIK D64EX isn't limit-removing (correct me if I'm wrong), and the idea of having D64 mods using ZDoom features is great.

Problem is though, (G)ZDoom and Skulltag already have this.

Er, what? It sure as heck doesn't have visplane and drawseg limits, plus it has D64's own added features, many of which aren't replicated in any other sourceport. I think it definitely counts as limit removing at the very least.

Also, the idea of having D64 maps that actually look remotely like D64 maps and use D64 features is a pretty novel concept.

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scalliano said:

AFAIK D64EX isn't limit-removing (correct me if I'm wrong), and the idea of having D64 mods using ZDoom features is great.

Problem is though, (G)ZDoom and Skulltag already have this.


Actually D64ex IS limit removing, but if you expect it to run something like Vrack3 or Deus Vault 2 then you're out of your mind.

I also got plans to borrow the decorate system from zdoom so decorate scripts can be compatible with d64ex as well. Unfortunately I can already predict d64ex getting no love from the modding community because its simply not zdoom. I am still working on it, even if the majority of the crowd will still be playing the zdoom conversions.

scalliano said:

Like I said, correct me :P

It's true that D64EX is visually spot-on though.


Visually and behavior wise, its spot on. There are a lot of things other than visuals that are different than the original doom version and it DOES matter a lot when you have someone doing a conversion of the game.

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I hear that. For the record I'm a big fan of D64EX, but I must admit that I'm as guilty as anyone else on that score. I do have a few DECORATE-based D64-styled Bestiary remakes on my HD which need finishing up and it would be great to see them in D64EX.

My point to the OP was that currently prospective D64 modders already have three options; D64 Absolution, the aforementioned resource pack for ZDoom and the dedicated D64EX. Unless this project is a ZDoom/Skulltag recreation of D64 itself (the more ports that run D64 the merrier IMO), it seems like folly to me, and I'm not sure that a vanilla/Boom version would even be possible.

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Kaiser said:

Actually D64ex IS limit removing, but if you expect it to run something like Vrack3 or Deus Vault 2 then you're out of your mind.

I also got plans to borrow the decorate system from zdoom so decorate scripts can be compatible with d64ex as well. Unfortunately I can already predict d64ex getting no love from the modding community because its simply not zdoom. I am still working on it, even if the majority of the crowd will still be playing the zdoom conversions.



Visually and behavior wise, its spot on. There are a lot of things other than visuals that are different than the original doom version and it DOES matter a lot when you have someone doing a conversion of the game.

I do appreciate D64EX, i love it and play it a lot. And i saw the D64 Stuff packs. I dont care if you say this project is a dumb idea, because im going to do it anyway for the sake of other's enjoyment. I cant imagine how much time it took to make and perfect Doom 64EX.

EDIT: I just tried the D64 pack and it sucks major shit. Theres no original music, or maps. Even the textures aren't original. As far as i know, D64EX is the most original port of D64 there is. Im trying to do the same but turn it into a port-runable mod.

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Kaiser said:

Unfortunately I can already predict d64ex getting no love from the modding community because its simply not zdoom.

The biggest obstacle I think is the lack of modding tools and reference documentation. I know DB2 now has a Doom64 branch, which is a start. I am also planning to try to add support for the D64 map format in SLADE3, once it gets a map editor. (Though it'd help if D64Ex used standard PNG transparency (either tRNS chunk or alpha channel) rather than hardcoding it to palette index 0 if it's black.)

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RDMonkey said:

I just tried the D64 pack and it sucks major shit. Theres no original music, or maps. Even the textures aren't original.


It's a resource pack, not a mod. Jesus...

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RDMonkey said:

EDIT: I just tried the D64 pack and it sucks major shit. Theres no original music, or maps. Even the textures aren't original. As far as i know, D64EX is the most original port of D64 there is. Im trying to do the same but turn it into a port-runable mod.

You'll never get it working and looking 'original' as you put it because fundamental features Doom64 needs are inexistent in these ports. How do you plan to tackle the lighting model for example?

If you really want Doom64 in said ports then its going to take a lot more than a resource rip and a DECORATE/ACS script session to get there.

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Well, the only way that I can think of to emulate D64's lighting effects in ZDoom is by using multiple instances of the ExtraFloor_LightOnly special, but that would be a total mess.

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scalliano said:

Well, the only way that I can think of to emulate D64's lighting effects in ZDoom is by using multiple instances of the ExtraFloor_LightOnly special, but that would be a total mess.


The only way I can think of to support D64 lighting effect in ZDoom is to code them in. :p

Anything short of actual support would be just a half-assed job.

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esselfortium said:

I can't be the only one disappointed in the bizarre lack of community interest in mapping and modding for Doom64 EX. With all the love Doom64 seems to get, I'd think people would be all over that.

Well I'm certainly interested in it. Is the D64 branch of Doom Builder 2 stable yet? I could never get anything I made with the DB1-based version to run.

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RDMonkey said:

EDIT: I just tried the D64 pack and it sucks major shit. Theres no original music, or maps. Even the textures aren't original. As far as i know, D64EX is the most original port of D64 there is. Im trying to do the same but turn it into a port-runable mod.

Fail. The main attraction is to play through your favorite pwads Doom 64 style. I tossed in editing stuff(including the textures) for the hell of it.
Not to mention, replicating the entire damn game is a feat I'm not fit to do, and ZDoom can only do so much for this. And I am certainly not replacing Doom's original textures with Doom 64, for the simple fact that there's very few capable of one on one replacements, and even fewer that aren't bigger than the original textures anyways.

And there's no way in hell I'm putting up a 200+ mb music wad. :P


Honestly, the intended audience for this was me, anyways. The reason it exists was so I could play my favorite pwads Doom 64 style. :P
I shared it with a few friends and they encouraged me to release it. So I did.

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Gez said:

The biggest obstacle I think is the lack of modding tools and reference documentation. I know DB2 now has a Doom64 branch, which is a start. I am also planning to try to add support for the D64 map format in SLADE3, once it gets a map editor. (Though it'd help if D64Ex used standard PNG transparency (either tRNS chunk or alpha channel) rather than hardcoding it to palette index 0 if it's black.)


I actually don't have as much time anymore like I used to. But I still try to dedicate as much time (when possible) to get these things done. Yes there is a version of DB2 thats being worked on and I am also getting together editing documents on how to edit Doom64. Problem is that its just so much to cover and its the #1 reason why its taking so long to finish.

Also, check the latest version on the SVN because I got tRNS support implemented now. The hardcoded 0,0,0 index color is no longer present.

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RDMonkey said:

EDIT: I just tried the D64 pack and it sucks major shit. Theres no original music, or maps. Even the textures aren't original. As far as i know, D64EX is the most original port of D64 there is. Im trying to do the same but turn it into a port-runable mod.

Any credibility/respect you had before was lost right about here.


Regarding Doom64 mapping: It's actually been on my "want to do" list for a long while, but that doesn't mean much considering how much from said list I actually get done (i.e. not much). Still tempted to, though.

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Kaiser said:

Also, check the latest version on the SVN because I got tRNS support implemented now. The hardcoded 0,0,0 index color is no longer present.


Good to know, but that means a new wadgen, doesn't it?

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Gez said:

Good to know, but that means a new wadgen, doesn't it?


Yeah, Wadgen was updated as well.

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Gez said:

I am also planning to try to add support for the D64 map format in SLADE3, once it gets a map editor.


Well, there's no map editor yet, but:

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Kaiser said:

I also got plans to borrow the decorate system from zdoom so decorate scripts can be compatible with d64ex as well. Unfortunately I can already predict d64ex getting no love from the modding community because its simply not zdoom. I am still working on it, even if the majority of the crowd will still be playing the zdoom conversions.

If only I could convince you to use TX_ instead of T_! :P

On a more serious note, ZDoom just recently got a Doom 64 branch so hopefully the need for a ZDoom conversion will disappear once it's done. If you do decide to borrow the decorate system, then it's likely that mods will be compatible.

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Dunno, using T_ instead of TX_ is a good way to make the difference between textures that'll be referred to by their hash (or formerly, index) and textures that'll be referred to by their name.

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Gez said:

Dunno, using T_ instead of TX_ is a good way to make the difference between textures that'll be referred to by their hash (or formerly, index) and textures that'll be referred to by their name.

Does it make a difference? Right now ZDoom is just handling T_ as an alias for TX_ and it seems to be working fine. In addition the only resources loaded should be the ZDoom pk3(s) and the Doom 64 IWAD which means there's no other T(X)_ namespace for collisions to happen with.

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Blzut3 said:

If only I could convince you to use TX_ instead of T_! :P

On a more serious note, ZDoom just recently got a Doom 64 branch so hopefully the need for a ZDoom conversion will disappear once it's done. If you do decide to borrow the decorate system, then it's likely that mods will be compatible.

Wait...what?

You realize this is likely to turn Kaiser's pioneering work on Doom64 EX into a useless novelty port, right? Why bother working on any other port if your work is going to be totally ignored and then replicated by ZDoom? The competitiveness is totally unnecessary and discourages development.

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esselfortium said:

You realize this is likely to turn Kaiser's pioneering work on Doom64 EX into a useless novelty port, right?

I fail to see how this would make Doom64 Ex useless. After all it does depend on the IWAD data created by WadGen. In addition Doom64 Ex will still be more accurate to the original than ZDoom can ever hope to be. The only thing I see is this would put Doom64 Ex into the position of PrBoom or Chocolate Doom, neither of which I would classify as useless ports.

Edit:

esselfortium said:

The competitiveness is totally unnecessary and discourages development.

So far it has gotten Doom64 Ex a working Linux port and tRNS chunk support.

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