Making Doom a little more social

[40oz]

I'm trying to think of ways that I could better introduce doom to some friends. I kinda want to invite people over and have a "Doom Day." I feel like huddling around a small monitor with a lone keyboard taking turns is a bad approach. What are some suggestions in which I could make Doom a little more playable with multiple people?

Please don't suggest installing it on everyone's computer and telling them to play skulltag.

[pavera]

Install it on everyone's computer and have them play Odamex.

[Glass Rook]

Get six televisions, six Playstations, six copies of Ultimate Doom for the Playstation, six...

Oh, nevermind...

Seriously, though... I wouldn't suggest the on-line thing for newbies, but even staying away from that I don't see how you can avoid turn-taking unless you have more than one PC with the game on it.

[Xaser]

E1 Co-op session. It's just simple enough to work, perhaps. ;)

[Malinku]

doom95 lan
chocolate doom lan (doomwire)

just throwing out ideas

[EarthQuake]

With the recent mouse fix for Doom95, Malinku's suggestion isn't unreasonable. While I love Chocolate Doom, your friends might appreciate Doom95's higher screen resolution. And you probably have no intention of doing so, but I'd stay away from ZDoom, other "eyecandy" ports, and anything that is a bit too cluttered or complicated for a beginner.

That pretty much leaves Chocolate Doom and Doom95, heh. ;)

Forgot to ask: how many computers do you have, that you can connect to the same network?

[CODOR]

Don't the XBox 360 ports have splitscreen multiplayer?

(This assumes you and/or a friend have a 360 and are willing to get a copy of one of the games. If not... IGNORE ME!)

[scalliano]

ZDoom is not an eyecandy port. GZDoom, however ...

[Technician]

I can't get my friends to play Doom DM. They laugh when they beat me at Halo but get tired when I absolutely ass-rape them at Doom. Kid's today don't know the extreme conditions of a real Doom game. You can stick your headshots and malee up your fucking ass.

[darkreaver]

EarthQuake said:

With the recent mouse fix for Doom95, Malinku's suggestion isn't unreasonable. While I love Chocolate Doom, your friends might appreciate Doom95's higher screen resolution. And you probably have no intention of doing so, but I'd stay away from ZDoom, other "eyecandy" ports, and anything that is a bit too cluttered or complicated for a beginner.

That pretty much leaves Chocolate Doom and Doom95, heh. ;)

Forgot to ask: how many computers do you have, that you can connect to the same network?

Dude, what the hell are you talking about? "eyecandy ports too complicated for beginners"? :P It`s the exact same thing as "nonm-eyecandy-ports" but with "better" gfx.

40oz: do they have laptops? If so I suggest this:

Give all of them a preferred sourceport, doom2.wad (oh no I did`nt!), and a preferred wad to play. Let`s say Alien Vendetta. Then play co-op. Profit.

Also, make them find the way, grab items, kill stuff etc. Try to make them think they are good at the game :P "Hey, where did you find that weapon?!?", and "Nice! You saved my sorry ass!", and "Have anyone seen the yellow key? I found the door". Hahahha, I promise you it`ll work. I`ve done it many a time with non-Dooming friends. It`s just like playing with little kids!

I recommend GZDoom or Skulltag cuz of dynamic lights, it REALLY helps with their first impressions. Maybe GLBoom.

Your .bat file should say: skulltag.exe -file av.wad -host (dunno if -host is neccesary?)

Their .bat-files should say: skulltag.exe -file av.wad -join "your ip"

Sooo simple, and soooo cool. Co-op <3<3<3<3

[printz]

If you happen to know people who don't mind old school games and stuff, your chance is increased, as they either have, or will appreciate Doom in their collections. May not become devoted to Doom, but like it as a fun shooter nevertheless.

If your buddies like to play FPS in general (which for me is a rare occurence already; sports games are the norm, and a wee bit of Counterstrike, which is not bad in itself, but it's only ONE of those modern FPS floating around), you can gradually get them back to the past until they reach Doom. Perhaps a good medium before introducing the classics is Doom 3.

It's also very likely that people'll know what you're talking about when you speak of classic Doom. Hell, they may even understand the meaning of level editing. I did show off myself playing one of my Doom 2 levels at college, and the colleagues were fairly quick to remember that Half-Life or another game had similar editing tools. Also, they recognized that the blue blob gun was the plasma gun. And they easily noticed the lack of free-look in Doom :)

Make sure you show them an exciting level, otherwise they may not be convinced Doom is any better than any other, newer engine game.

[gggmork]

Person A controls shooting and opening doors, person B controls movement (hmm.. maybe some of the most skilled demoers are secretly a team all using the same keyboard/mouse).

[Nomad]

Doom Legacy with splitscreen?

[Mechadon]

Personally, I've had a terrible time getting friends or other people into Doom. Whenever I mention that I'm a fan of the game, people always seem to assume I'm talking about Doom 3 :P

From what little success I've had though, I've found that a port with increased frame rate and resolution options tend to leave a pretty big impression. Of course the person in question had played Doom before, it had just been a long time since he last played. So seeing the game without the tiny resolution and super smooth frame rate left a big impact on him. I have no idea if he still plays though. But if I were you, I'd start with a port that will at least give the option to increase screen resolution. If that's not good enough, go up from there (up with graphical enhancements I mean). Though it would be pretty cool if you could get them hooked with something like Chocolate Doom too ;). I'd also break out some more impressive playing/looking pwads too (like DVII or something). Maybe after you do a round of E1 coop or something, anyway.

Beyond that, if your talking about anyone younger who hasn't played the game before and is accustomed to more modern looking games full of detail, going the OpenGL route is probably the only way your going to grab their attention. Of course I could be wrong; there could certainly be some younger players out there who actually know what gameplay over graphics is all about. But in my experience, enhanced graphics seem to be the only selling points for younger players when it comes to older games like Doom.

[Jodwin]

Definitely do something coop. Not only is it by definition more social than playing alone, it also lessens the frustration of dying, etc. which can be a negative factor for people getting into the game.

[Per-Scan]

Doom Legacy or Doom 3D (?) split-screen co-op and hook your PC up to the telly. Failing that Xbox 360 Doom does have working split-screen... :)

If you fancy a bigger competitive thing we used to hook up 2 TV's and 2 PC's or laptops (not unsurmountable in today's tech savvy world...) and play 'knock-out' tournaments. The observers can't help but take sides during a match and they can't wait for their turn... Also beer, yes definitely beer... :P

Also: at the risk of being controversial if they are 'modern' gamers I'd recommend a couple of 360 controllers and (G)ZDoom as it has the most rounded controller functionality of any port I know - it's also easier throwing controllers around than moving mice and keyboards... *runs and hides from potential fallout...*

[myk]

40oz said:
What are some suggestions in which I could make Doom a little more playable with multiple people?

Either have them bring computer parts to put a LAN together or take a DOOM CD to a cybercafé that allows your group to set the game up temporarily.

[Kira]

printz said:

Make sure you show them an exciting level, otherwise they may not be convinced Doom is any better than any other, newer engine game.

I second that.

[kmiller1610]

I built a legacy Doom Lan for this very purpose. I have a 6 (4 to play, two back-ups) machines outfitted with DOS, old Lan cards, Doom, Doom2 and dozens of custom wads. I got most of what I needed on ebay, including the IPX drivers (personal netware).

Here's the thread.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?postid=907088#post907088

[kristus]

I used to have friends over where we played Skulltag and drank beer/smoked a bowl and basically played as long as we could. They either used my secondary computers or brought their own lap tops.

[purist]

I'd run Legacy splitscreen through the telly. WAD wise, I'd use E1 then Scythe to get started with.

[Gez]

EarthQuake said:

And you probably have no intention of doing so, but I'd stay away from ZDoom, other "eyecandy" ports, and anything that is a bit too cluttered or complicated for a beginner.

Or are ports other than Doom 95 cluttered and complicated? Those I use regularly seem rather simple at least. Newbies would probably find having to quit the game and run an external setup to change key bindings a lot more "cluttered and complicated" than being able to do so in the game itself. All modern games have menus for changing controls or adjusting resolution. They won't find it scary or weird. They would find it scary or weird that they have to go through a DOS setup program to do so, though.

Stuff that could seem complicated, full of esoteric jargon and references they don't get, would be the compatibility option menus. And they'd have no reason to go there so it's not a problem.

[printz]

Gez said:

Newbies would probably find having to quit the game and run an external setup to change key bindings a lot more "cluttered and complicated" than being able to do so in the game itself.

Speaking of this, when will ports have a user-friendly, fully integrated, front-menu WAD loader? SMMU added and Eternity inherited it, but it's kinda clumsy and hidden in the backyard of the menu. And you can't un-load wads AFAIK. ZDoom doesn't even have a console command for loading WADs at run-time. What the HELL.

[Vorpal]

Just seconding what has already been said...

Co-op would definitely be the way to make Doom social, the only way that deathmatch would be good is after everyone is familiar with the game (or if everyone was around the same ability level to begin with).

I think I'd go with plutonia as the introductory game. The levels don't look like vomit, it has the enemy variety of doom2 (and ssg of course), satisfying story bits every 5-10 levels, and stellar co-op support.

Edit: But, is not merely the mention of "doom" social suicide? ;-P

Good luck!

[Gez]

printz said:

Speaking of this, when will ports have a user-friendly, fully integrated, front-menu WAD loader? SMMU added and Eternity inherited it, but it's kinda clumsy and hidden in the backyard of the menu. And you can't un-load wads AFAIK. ZDoom doesn't even have a console command for loading WADs at run-time. What the HELL.

Because mods can change everything. The actor table. The strings. The way the menus are set up. Which control lumps are used. And so on. The best you could do, code-wise, would be to start a new process where these mods are loaded, and quit.

You'll notice that many modern games have the same dichotomy. You don't load Fallout 3 mods from the main menu, you select them in the launcher and then start the game. In something like Doom 3, when you select a mod, the game actually quits and restarts IIRC.

And since there are many people who wrote frontends and launchers for Doom ports already, integrating one in the port itself is not a necessity. And it's divisive: while it'll please some, it'll also annoy others.

[myk]

Vorpal said:
Co-op would definitely be the way to make Doom social, the only way that deathmatch would be good is after everyone is familiar with the game (or if everyone was around the same ability level to begin with).

It really depends on what the people are like. If it's people that are rather alien to video games, coop in easy settings or levels may work better because of a lack of dexterity with the controls, but if the people have enough FPS or general gaming experience, DM should be a solid option, because it's much like a game or sport and makes people interact directly in an exciting fashion. Its "find your buddy and nail him" play is also generally simpler than carefully trudging around a maze looking for keys in a group. In coop, unruly players are also likely to ruin the game, and not all friends are saints. Some friends will like coop more, others DM, so doing both can create a compromise among them.

[printz]

Gez said:

In something like Doom 3, when you select a mod, the game actually quits and restarts IIRC.

Technically yes, but it's almost seamless for the user.

Gez said:

And it's divisive: while it'll please some, it'll also annoy others.

As long as it's optional and doesn't replace something else, it can be avoided by whoever doesn't approve it.

[darkreaver]

What ever you do, dont play deathmatch. Go co-op. Now GO!!!!!

[40oz]

Yeah I was thinking about something along the lines of playing split screen on a bigass tv. Maybe with joysticks/gamepads. XBLA Doom has this but my Xbox is broken. I'm not interested in investing $250 to have something to play Doom on. Having a lan game kinda seems like fun albeit complicated and expensive. (Having to own multiple PC's and or lugging people's PCs out of their house) I feel like playing on PC's is a little too isolated as well. I feel like someone could be easily bored if they are playing alone without being watched and close enough to people to talk to them, or people that are watching would be bored eventually too. I think if we're all sitting together in one room focusing our attention on one screen (or even many screens in the same clump) we'd have a much more enjoyable time.

As far as wads, I don't think we could go wrong with the IWADs. I'm probably more interested in having something with a horrendously large monster population but isn't necessarily hard. Meaning to have weapons strong enough to handle them, but not placed in positions where they will easily catch players off guard. Maybe some of the early parts of Scythe 2 or MAP01 of Deus Vult. Or I could just as well make a wad with this idea in mind.

All of your suggestions have been extremely helpful :)

[Revenant]

Alienate your friends with SpaceDM5